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California orders bottled water firm to stop drawing from natural springs

theguardian.com

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Re: California orders bottled water firm to stop drawing from natural springs

#11

Post by klyrs »

rudolph9 wrote: post #3

Do bottling water actually consume a significant amount water vs like an average size farm? I personally thing bottled water is generally pretty unnecessary and really wasteful to transport but I can’t help think the actual amount of water given people are drinking it not watering plants or showering with it is relatively small?

Many blame Nestlé as the root cause of the Flint water crisis: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/29/nestle-pays-...

The question isn't if farming is technically worse on a global scale, it's whether each individual aquifer can sustain its output.

Re: California orders bottled water firm to stop drawing from natural springs

#12

Post by Georgelemental »

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #7

We need to stop giving money to bottled water company, so to stop them giving the means and the reason to lobby against water being a human right, it is the job of a government to make sure that the infrastructure for clean water is present, and funded through taxes, to benefit any and all, and as always fuck nestle… and the other water companies

> Water being a human right

Human need ≠ human right. By definition, a limited resource cannot be a natural right.

Re: California orders bottled water firm to stop drawing from natural springs

#13

Post by dietr1ch »

Georgelemental wrote: post #12
lnxg33k1 wrote: post #7

We need to stop giving money to bottled water company, so to stop them giving the means and the reason to lobby against water being a human right, it is the job of a government to make sure that the infrastructure for clean water is present, and funded through taxes, to benefit any and all, and as always fuck nestle… and the other water companies

> Water being a human right Human need ≠ human right. By definition, a limited resource cannot be a natural right.

So how's the argument that water is technically limited is enough to start selling it for corporate profit?

Re: California orders bottled water firm to stop drawing from natural springs

#14

Post by Arrath »

darkwizard42 wrote: post #5

Water rights are a super complicated and politically challenging issue to navigate. I don't know how it gets solved because so many laws and rules have been passed to protect water rights. What would happen if a central authority (like say the regulators here) ignored the claim of the bottling company and then also defied the courts to protect some greater good? Is the only remedy for lawmakers to pass laws explicitl…

The problem is so deeply seated with agreements, allotments, and obligations going back to homesteading acts and treaties with Native American nations that I fear the system is truly unfixable and needs a ground-up rebuild.

As with any genuine reform efforts, that too would take forever to work its way through legislature and also get blocked up in the courts for god knows how long. What can be done?

Re: California orders bottled water firm to stop drawing from natural springs

#15

Post by pphysch »

xattt wrote: post #6
rudolph9 wrote: post #3

Do bottling water actually consume a significant amount water vs like an average size farm? I personally thing bottled water is generally pretty unnecessary and really wasteful to transport but I can’t help think the actual amount of water given people are drinking it not watering plants or showering with it is relatively small?

Bottling water removes it from the local water cycle. If you are watering and showering, that water stays relatively local and ends up coming back into the local water system maintaining the local water table. If you are bottling water, you are effectively removing it from the local “water system” with no chance of it ever replenishing the source. Irrigation wells are not ideal either, and may be comparable in terms…

Sure but you could make the same argument about exporting food. Apples are 80-90% water

Re: California orders bottled water firm to stop drawing from natural springs

#16

Post by Georgelemental »

dietr1ch wrote: post #13
Georgelemental wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Water being a human right Human need ≠ human right. By definition, a limited resource cannot be a natural right.

So how's the argument that water is technically limited is enough to start selling it for corporate profit?

In fact, I don't think corporations should be able to exploit a commons (like a stream) for profit without compensating the community.

Re: California orders bottled water firm to stop drawing from natural springs

#17

Post by parineum »

Georgelemental wrote: post #12
lnxg33k1 wrote: post #7

We need to stop giving money to bottled water company, so to stop them giving the means and the reason to lobby against water being a human right, it is the job of a government to make sure that the infrastructure for clean water is present, and funded through taxes, to benefit any and all, and as always fuck nestle… and the other water companies

> Water being a human right Human need ≠ human right. By definition, a limited resource cannot be a natural right.

Water isn't limited.

Re: California orders bottled water firm to stop drawing from natural springs

#18

Post by agarren »

pphysch wrote: post #15
xattt wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bottling water removes it from the local water cycle. If you are watering and showering, that water stays relatively local and ends up coming back into the local water system maintaining the local water table. If you are bottling water, you are effectively removing it from the local “water system” with no chance of it ever replenishing the source. Irrigation wells are not ideal either, and may be comparable in terms…

Sure but you could make the same argument about exporting food. Apples are 80-90% water

I’ve heard similar arguments made pretty regularly for almonds and especially alfalfa [0] grown in California or Arizona, and exported to Saudi Arabia. It seems legit to me.

[0] https://azpbs.org/horizon/2022/06/saudi-water-deal-threateni...

Re: California orders bottled water firm to stop drawing from natural springs

#19

Post by nsonha »

xattt wrote: post #6
rudolph9 wrote: post #3

Do bottling water actually consume a significant amount water vs like an average size farm? I personally thing bottled water is generally pretty unnecessary and really wasteful to transport but I can’t help think the actual amount of water given people are drinking it not watering plants or showering with it is relatively small?

Bottling water removes it from the local water cycle. If you are watering and showering, that water stays relatively local and ends up coming back into the local water system maintaining the local water table. If you are bottling water, you are effectively removing it from the local “water system” with no chance of it ever replenishing the source. Irrigation wells are not ideal either, and may be comparable in terms…

what is "local water"? The whole thing about water is that it flows. There isn't a magic property that bound water to a geographic localtion. Like when it rains, is it "local" cloud?

Re: California orders bottled water firm to stop drawing from natural springs

#20

Post by arwineap »

nsonha wrote: post #19
xattt wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bottling water removes it from the local water cycle. If you are watering and showering, that water stays relatively local and ends up coming back into the local water system maintaining the local water table. If you are bottling water, you are effectively removing it from the local “water system” with no chance of it ever replenishing the source. Irrigation wells are not ideal either, and may be comparable in terms…

what is "local water"? The whole thing about water is that it flows. There isn't a magic property that bound water to a geographic localtion. Like when it rains, is it "local" cloud?

Most Rivers flow through geographic locales, and generally their path is static

There's not a whole lot of risk that the Seine will start flowing through the US

The "local" clouds also usually follow a pattern, this is why my local mountains get snow replacing every year, which is the source of my local rivers

However a bottling company could easily ship bottled water to a location that is likely never going to return to the local water table. Ever heard of Fiji brand water?

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