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Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

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Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#11

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ryndbfsrw wrote: post #5

What a crap business model these companies have if they rely on haggling over legal loopholes to operate. The business case, at best, is the status quo remains with material threats to their operations if these laws change. This is a lose-lose for everyone. Ignore the morality arguments, why risk your money on something with almost zero upside and all this downside? Suing the government is not a sign of strength

> why risk your money on something with almost zero upside and all this downside? Suing the government is not a sign of strength

Can’t say I agree with this logic. (Conclusion fine.) Apple didn’t sue the FBI from a position of weakness [1]. DoorDash et al, understandably, don’t want to be disadvantaged in their grocery business [2]. Reading between the leaves, I think that’s what they’re pushing for. They also don’t want to change the status quo, which is less reasonable, but not a sign of strength or weakness per se.

In any case, most small businesses in America operate on single-digit margins. Almost every restaurant would be wiped out by what, from a tech perspective, is a meaningless change in margins. There is nothing meaningful to conclude simply from the fact DoorDash is challenging the rule.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple–FBI_encryption_dispute

[2] https://doordash.news/get-the-facts/why-were-filing-a-lawsui...

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#12

Post by rightbyte »

may_i_ai_plz wrote: post #4

it would force companies to pay workers for any time logged into the app, regardless of whether they were delivering or not Heh. Do these companies interview their gig workers? Could I collect some passive cash like this? What a soul sucking job interview that would actually be: What makes you a great delivery bicycle person and where do you see yourself in 5 years? So in other words, these companies would mandate th…

> The city is just being stupid on this one.

Why? Don't hire delivery drivers of you don't need them.

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#13

Post by criddell »

csomar wrote: post #10

This will essentially kill these platforms. I don't have the data but I can see how a delivery can take, on average, one hour. Between waiting for an order to arrive, accepting it, going to the food place, taking it to the destination, delivering it, etc... $17 + fees + tips? => $20+ delivery fee. Unless you are delivering for a well-off family of 5, it makes no sense.

How does that compare with spending your time going out and picking up your food or taking your family to a restaurant? That has to be a minimum of 30-45 minutes of time spent traveling plus car or transit expenses. It might be more, but is it a lot more?

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#14

Post by JumpCrisscross »

csomar wrote: post #10

This will essentially kill these platforms. I don't have the data but I can see how a delivery can take, on average, one hour. Between waiting for an order to arrive, accepting it, going to the food place, taking it to the destination, delivering it, etc... $17 + fees + tips? => $20+ delivery fee. Unless you are delivering for a well-off family of 5, it makes no sense.

> I can see how a delivery can take, on average, one hour

In New York?

> will essentially kill these platforms

It will curtail them. They will need to trim their driver network, which will reduce the number of drivers and increase delivery times. Restaurants and consumers outside high-density areas no longer make sense to cater to. Dropping restaurants who don’t meet minimums will also, likely, be necessary. In summary, this is entirely solved with densification—food delivery in New York predates these platforms.

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#15

Post by hsjqllzlfkf »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #11
ryndbfsrw wrote: post #5

What a crap business model these companies have if they rely on haggling over legal loopholes to operate. The business case, at best, is the status quo remains with material threats to their operations if these laws change. This is a lose-lose for everyone. Ignore the morality arguments, why risk your money on something with almost zero upside and all this downside? Suing the government is not a sign of strength

> why risk your money on something with almost zero upside and all this downside? Suing the government is not a sign of strength Can’t say I agree with this logic. (Conclusion fine.) Apple didn’t sue the FBI from a position of weakness [1]. DoorDash et al , understandably, don’t want to be disadvantaged in their grocery business [2]. Reading between the leaves, I think that’s what they’re pushing for. They also don’t…

Sorry, what does apple have to do with this conversation?

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#16

Post by csomar »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #14
csomar wrote: post #10

This will essentially kill these platforms. I don't have the data but I can see how a delivery can take, on average, one hour. Between waiting for an order to arrive, accepting it, going to the food place, taking it to the destination, delivering it, etc... $17 + fees + tips? => $20+ delivery fee. Unless you are delivering for a well-off family of 5, it makes no sense.

> I can see how a delivery can take, on average, one hour In New York? > will essentially kill these platforms It will curtail them. They will need to trim their driver network, which will reduce the number of drivers and increase delivery times. Restaurants and consumers outside high-density areas no longer make sense to cater to. Dropping restaurants who don’t meet minimums will also, likely, be necessary. In summa…

I can see it working in New York City (and closer denser areas) but these platforms operate in the broader US and other markets (which can have now laws influenced by the US).

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#17

Post by csomar »

criddell wrote: post #13
csomar wrote: post #10

This will essentially kill these platforms. I don't have the data but I can see how a delivery can take, on average, one hour. Between waiting for an order to arrive, accepting it, going to the food place, taking it to the destination, delivering it, etc... $17 + fees + tips? => $20+ delivery fee. Unless you are delivering for a well-off family of 5, it makes no sense.

How does that compare with spending your time going out and picking up your food or taking your family to a restaurant? That has to be a minimum of 30-45 minutes of time spent traveling plus car or transit expenses. It might be more, but is it a lot more?

Sure. If you make $150/hour, it might make sense. But that's hardly the case for the average person.

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#18

Post by LatteLazy »

Incipient wrote: post #6
may_i_ai_plz wrote: post #4

it would force companies to pay workers for any time logged into the app, regardless of whether they were delivering or not Heh. Do these companies interview their gig workers? Could I collect some passive cash like this? What a soul sucking job interview that would actually be: What makes you a great delivery bicycle person and where do you see yourself in 5 years? So in other words, these companies would mandate th…

If you were working in a warehouse and they had no packages for you to send out, they just don't pay you for that time?

If you were sat at home playing video games but could conceivably go to the warehouse if they called but they didn't call, you would not be paid for your time playing video games.

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#19

Post by JumpCrisscross »

hsjqllzlfkf wrote: post #15
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why risk your money on something with almost zero upside and all this downside? Suing the government is not a sign of strength Can’t say I agree with this logic. (Conclusion fine.) Apple didn’t sue the FBI from a position of weakness [1]. DoorDash et al , understandably, don’t want to be disadvantaged in their grocery business [2]. Reading between the leaves, I think that’s what they’re pushing for. They also don’t…

Sorry, what does apple have to do with this conversation?

> what does apple have to do with this conversation?

It also sued the government. My point is “suing the government is not a sign of strength” or weakness. It’s a non-signal. I think DoorDash is wrong here, though they have a kernel of a point in why grocery delivery is not covered by the rule. But their suing the government says nothing about their strength or weakness.

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#20

Post by _xivi »

Related discussions during the last month:

- NYC food delivery gig workers score a big minimum wage victory (96 comments): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36327770

- DoorDash, Grubhub and Uber sue New York City over minimum wage law (59 comments): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36626525

- New York City Sets New Minimum Wage for Food Delivery Workers (7 comments): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36302121

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