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AI Will Never Be Conscious, but It Exudes Our Consciousness

louison.substack.com

11–20 of 22 posts

Re: AI Will Never Be Conscious, but It Exudes Our Consciousness

#11
post #8

I have a far simpler question that I wish to understand -- why does a pin prick hurt ? I can understand that nerve endings respond to the stimulus. I understand that it can be transmitted across synapses by way of ionic exchanges to finds it way into the brain (or spinal cord) where it results in firing a bunch of neurons there as well. All in all a series of small scale chemical changes. But why does those result in…

Because creatures who didn’t experience that as aversive didn’t survive. We’re the descendants of those who subjectively suffered due to objective physical damage — all the other ones died.

Re: AI Will Never Be Conscious, but It Exudes Our Consciousness

#12
post #10
post #8

I have a far simpler question that I wish to understand -- why does a pin prick hurt ? I can understand that nerve endings respond to the stimulus. I understand that it can be transmitted across synapses by way of ionic exchanges to finds it way into the brain (or spinal cord) where it results in firing a bunch of neurons there as well. All in all a series of small scale chemical changes. But why does those result in…

Not an answer, but the search term to find discussion is “qualia” (i.e., “the qualia of pain, the qualia of blue”, etc)

Exactly ! and we still do not have a working understanding of it.

Re: AI Will Never Be Conscious, but It Exudes Our Consciousness

#13
post #7
post #4

Thousands of years of thinking about these issues, decades coming to hard grips with how little we understand, and LLMs drop like an atom bomb waking up every idiot on the planet who has naive things to say about consciousness. What's the motivation to talk so loudly and confidently about things one knows nearly nothing about? Edit: I regret using the word "idiot" above. Nothing against the author's intelligence. Poo…

What astounds me is the sheer arrogance of it. The assumption that only humans can be imbued with consciousness, because of... what, exactly? Self-reflection and the rejection of the scientific method?

I'm pretty sure there's many species with consciousness. Of course the discussion of consciousness in general is one big mess, imho. :-/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_consciousness

Re: AI Will Never Be Conscious, but It Exudes Our Consciousness

#14
post #8

I have a far simpler question that I wish to understand -- why does a pin prick hurt ? I can understand that nerve endings respond to the stimulus. I understand that it can be transmitted across synapses by way of ionic exchanges to finds it way into the brain (or spinal cord) where it results in firing a bunch of neurons there as well. All in all a series of small scale chemical changes. But why does those result in…

Because creatures who didn’t experience that as aversive didn’t survive. We’re the descendants of those who subjectively suffered due to objective physical damage — all the other ones died.

Agreed. But it still makes me wonder about the internal mechanism that makes it work, or rather the last mile of that mechanism. Till we understand that we will not know what else can feel ?

Re: AI Will Never Be Conscious, but It Exudes Our Consciousness

#15
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because creatures who didn’t experience that as aversive didn’t survive. We’re the descendants of those who subjectively suffered due to objective physical damage — all the other ones died.

Agreed. But it still makes me wonder about the internal mechanism that makes it work, or rather the last mile of that mechanism. Till we understand that we will not know what else can feel ?

Just beware of the Cartesian theater.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartesian_theater

Re: AI Will Never Be Conscious, but It Exudes Our Consciousness

#17
I think a good approach to defining consciousness is to ask what problem it solved. Why was it selected for.

The obvious functional purpose of consciousness is self-awareness. Awareness of our body in our environment, via our senses, and awareness of our bodies internal state, and all the way to awareness of our primal mental state (feelings, impulses), to awareness of our highest level mental states: what we are paying attention to, what we just deciding that is already impacting our bodies behavior, etc.

The more aware we are of ourselves in the center of our world, the better our ability to control our responses, and learn from the results of our responses.

The point where we are functionally aware of our own thoughts, including that we are aware of our own thoughts, and have enough ability to abstract to experience that as a closed infinite loop (as an abstraction) in real time -> that's consciousness.

The only thing mysterious about it, is we have that strong loop of awareness, but without awareness of a lot of the machinery under it that makes it possible. So to us, it appears to float in out minds free of actual machinery.

But just like we experience memories, without complete awareness of how they are created or stored, experience pain, without experiencing the nerve pathways that took a sensory input and passed it on to our pain center, we are aware of our own thinking about out thinking, but not aware of the machinery that makes us think.

Anyway, to me the functional, behavioral, benefit of the design approach seems sensible, since evolution is what produced our consiousness. And the answer I take from that seem reasonable.

Consciousness is just the depth of our real time awareness of our real time awareness.

And I would expect machines to get this, since this highest recurrent level of internal awareness provides the most information for self-regulation, control and adaptation.

But it seems like something that is easy to withhold in models too. No tight realtime feedback of highest level internal states. Intelligence, with enough self-awareness to be able to function sensibly, but with low or no internal stream of consciousness and the experiences associated with that.

Re: AI Will Never Be Conscious, but It Exudes Our Consciousness

#18
post #7
post #4

Thousands of years of thinking about these issues, decades coming to hard grips with how little we understand, and LLMs drop like an atom bomb waking up every idiot on the planet who has naive things to say about consciousness. What's the motivation to talk so loudly and confidently about things one knows nearly nothing about? Edit: I regret using the word "idiot" above. Nothing against the author's intelligence. Poo…

What astounds me is the sheer arrogance of it. The assumption that only humans can be imbued with consciousness, because of... what, exactly? Self-reflection and the rejection of the scientific method?

[dead]

Re: AI Will Never Be Conscious, but It Exudes Our Consciousness

#20
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What astounds me is the sheer arrogance of it. The assumption that only humans can be imbued with consciousness, because of... what, exactly? Self-reflection and the rejection of the scientific method?

I'm pretty sure there's many species with consciousness. Of course the discussion of consciousness in general is one big mess, imho. :-/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_consciousness

Animals are conscious, this isn't even debatable.

Point a weapon at an animal (for example, please don't really) and you'll immediately witness its self-awareness and some how even know that you're pointing a weapon at it.

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