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Psychedelic drugs take on depression

nature.com

11–20 of 118 posts

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#11
post #9

The frequency of these kind of posts followed by anecdotes about how it worked for the commenter (who I believe btw) makes me a little uneasy. Somewhere buried in the discussion eventually is a comment from a relevant professional urging caution in interpreting and reacting to these news reports and anecdotes. Now with something as serious as this I would not at all object to such cautions being placed a bit more pro…

Something much more serious for many people is the specter of suicide looming over them.

Caution is useful, but it’s not always an unalloyed good.

Chemotherapy isn’t healthy or safe, but the thing it’s used to stop is even worse.

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#12

Ketamine is a magical drug, I've told this story a hundred times on HN but it cured my depression overnight. I was given a large hit of it by a doctor after a horrible accident, I went into a K-hole and had a spiritual experience, but even more profound was the effect it had for 4 to 6 months after. It was like a veil had been lifted from my mind, the simplest pleasures of life made me happy, like smelling fresh coff…

Been there, and I just did a booster. I'm now very happy as I plug along on my project without any negative judgement: https://www.adama-platform.com/2022/07/02/the-path-of-the-mo...

I'm doing silly things for silly reasons, and I've never been this happy and at peace. It let me heal from the moral injury of working in big tech for a decade.

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#13

They should not be lumping ketamine in with all the other psychedelics which act on the serotonin 2A receptor. I’m hesitant to say ketamine is a psychedelic at all. Regardless, I find .25 mg of Klonopin can get rid of my depression as well, they’ve known for a long time that depression has a strong linked glutamate excitation in certain parts of the brain.

> say ketamine is a psychedelic at all.

For me, whatever I experienced was definitely something. https://www.adama-platform.com/2022/07/02/the-path-of-the-mo...

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#14

Psychedelics are illegal not because they create hallucinations but rather because they help break down the hallucinations we have about the world. In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is a hallucinating idiot.

One of my favorite stories about psychedelic experiences is a friend's coworker dosing acid one weekend, coming back in on Monday, saying "I hate it here" and quitting on the spot. They went on to travel and start their own company, and are doing great for themselves.

In my experience, psychedelics really help tear down the justifications we put up for the BS we tolerate in our daily lives and can help you connect with what you really appreciate and want in life. Definitely helped me realize the kind of person I want to be and appreciate the good things in my life. And similarly to the story about the coworker quitting, my tolerance for BS is nil, now, too.

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#15

Ketamine is a magical drug, I've told this story a hundred times on HN but it cured my depression overnight. I was given a large hit of it by a doctor after a horrible accident, I went into a K-hole and had a spiritual experience, but even more profound was the effect it had for 4 to 6 months after. It was like a veil had been lifted from my mind, the simplest pleasures of life made me happy, like smelling fresh coff…

> but even more profound was the effect it had for 4 to 6 months after.

It's important to note that this is an atypically long duration. In clinical studies, the duration of effects is more around 1-2 weeks. It's possible that the overall experience (including surviving an accident and getting a "second lease on life") was the trigger for 4-6 months of improvement, not just the medication you were given once.

That's why, in clinical practice, ketamine is more successfully used in conjunction with typical long-term treatments such as SSRIs and therapy. Some studies used a sequence of 6 treatments spread out over months in an attempt to kickstart the recovery, but it's generally not sustainable as a solo therapy.

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#16

Ketamine is a magical drug, I've told this story a hundred times on HN but it cured my depression overnight. I was given a large hit of it by a doctor after a horrible accident, I went into a K-hole and had a spiritual experience, but even more profound was the effect it had for 4 to 6 months after. It was like a veil had been lifted from my mind, the simplest pleasures of life made me happy, like smelling fresh coff…

It replaced my lifelong fear (terror?) of death with what I can honestly say is now curiosity. You can experience only so many deaths in your mind before you learn to be comfortable with the idea.

That sounds frightening. What do yo mean by 'experience only so many deaths' ?

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#17

They should not be lumping ketamine in with all the other psychedelics which act on the serotonin 2A receptor. I’m hesitant to say ketamine is a psychedelic at all. Regardless, I find .25 mg of Klonopin can get rid of my depression as well, they’ve known for a long time that depression has a strong linked glutamate excitation in certain parts of the brain.

Chronic benzo administration can cause depression, so that might not work for everyone.

I'd argue that the term "psychedelic dissociative" accurately captures what ketamine can be.

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#18

Psychedelics are illegal not because they create hallucinations but rather because they help break down the hallucinations we have about the world. In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is a hallucinating idiot.

If that were true, we would likely see a greater variety of discourse and testimonies from people who use hallucinogens.

On the contrary, they tend to sound surprisingly similar in terms of world-view to each other. Once you experience hallucinogens yourself, it becomes pretty clear why that might be.

The obvious conclusion is, of course, that hallucinogens unlock an objective, common reality. That's not what the depth and quality of the observations produced suggest, however.

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#19

Psychedelics are illegal not because they create hallucinations but rather because they help break down the hallucinations we have about the world. In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is a hallucinating idiot.

I saw Ketamine remove depression immediately after a single dose in a loved one. Thought it was magic, because it was, a lifetime of depression just evaporated like nothing. But then came the psychosis. Nearly got stabbed in my sleep because a voice told them to do that.

So... let's just say I think there are other explanations, too.

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#20
A word of caution: Ketamine treatment is far from standardized. Most of the clinical studies I've read aren't using doses that produce profound psychedelic trips. The more professional clinics seem to have settled on dosing regimens that produce mild impairment, but not the full-blown dissociative trips described in many of these articles.

Meanwhile, there are a lot of questionable ketamine clinic providers popping up all over the country that give much higher doses. Some of them promote the psychedelic angle heavily in their marketing materials, as it has become a major revenue generator from patients who read articles like this one. While a single medium to high dose of ketamine may not produce marked negative effects, some of the high-dose, repeat-dosing regimens used by alternative therapy providers are in the range where I'd begin to be very concerned about lasting damage.

I would strongly caution anyone curious about ketamine treatment to stick to the lower-dose clinics and providers. Avoid anyone trying to sell you on "psychedelic therapy" or who has a reputation on the internet of providing excessively large doses. Also keep in mind that the antidepressant effects are short-lived, so plan to engage with traditional long-term treatment (therapy and/or antidepressants) to create a lasting strategy for yourself when the short-term effects of the ketamine wear off.

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