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Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

nature.com

11–20 of 324 posts

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#11
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily [1]. COVID vaccines particularly give you far higher neutralization titers than a prior infection. [1] A glaring counterexample to your hypothesis is Brazil (Manuas) where prior infections (as high as 60%) didn't stop the P1 variant from ripping through.

> glaring counterexample to your hypothesis is Brazil (Manuas) where prior infections (as high as 60%) didn't stop the P1 variant from ripping through This says nothing about the strength of a previous infection. It very plausibly just says that R > 1.7, ie it is infecting the remaining 40%.

are you sure about the infecting the remaining 40%. In every article I read, they specifically mention re-infections in many cases.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#12
post #2

So, then I would assume this means people with antibodies from the initial wave of infections are also protected

the big diff between a vaccine and a previous infection is that the vaccine doesn't damage your body in the process of training your body to attack it.

Covid can wreck havoc on your body and leave it in a weaker state.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#13
post #2

So, then I would assume this means people with antibodies from the initial wave of infections are also protected

No. Antibodies to an infection can be a variety that target different parts of the virus.

The vaccine produces antibodies to a specific stretch of the spike protein. So everyone who has the Pfizer vaccine has a similar (but not identical) group of antibodies.

Those infected with Covid-19 have a more diverse set of antibodies that may or may not protect as well against varients.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#14
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> COVID vaccines particularly give you far higher neutralization titers than a prior infection. Do you have a source for that?

Here's one: https://www.contagionlive.com/view/immune-response-from-mrna...

The study itself says that the immune response to the vaccine is not as diverse as a natural infection. That's how the study tried to figure out who had been infected:

"Natural exposure induces a dominant Ab response against the nucleocapsid protein (NP), but since NP is not in the vaccine, there is no vaccine induced response against it. In this way vaccinated people who had a prior natural exposure can be classified because they have Abs to NP."

Simply looking at one aspect of immunity - detectable antibodies in the blood - is a very incomplete way of looking at the overall level of protection. For example, it's well known that mucosal immunity is important, and injected vaccines have a hard time inducing that kind of immunity: https://theprint.in/opinion/why-a-mucosal-covid-vaccine-has-...

It's also concerning that there is evidence that while people who have been vaccinated are much less likely to be infected. If they do get infected, they are more likely to be infected with one of the variants than unvaccinated: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/bioproject/PRJNA728463

The immune response developed to our vaccines is quite specific - they only generate the spike protein - which leads to a much less diverse response than a natural infection.

Finally, the study you quoted can't really compare apples to apples anyway, as it's defining prior infection as simply having some level of antibody response, without considering how mild or severe those infections actually were.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#16
post #2

So, then I would assume this means people with antibodies from the initial wave of infections are also protected

mRNA vaccines produce antibodies targeting just the spike protein( S protein). There are other proteins on the virus like the M protein. Antibodies produced during an infection may target other parts of the virus so you can’t compare the two.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#19
post #9
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily [1]. COVID vaccines particularly give you far higher neutralization titers than a prior infection. [1] A glaring counterexample to your hypothesis is Brazil (Manuas) where prior infections (as high as 60%) didn't stop the P1 variant from ripping through.

> [1] A glaring counterexample to your hypothesis is Brazil (Manuas) where prior infections (as high as 60%) didn't stop the P1 variant from ripping through. The prior infection estimates for Manaus were simply wrong . They were based on a paper that "adjusted" the observed seroprevalence rates upward by a factor of ~3x. The parsimonious conclusion is that these corrections were too aggressive and ended up over-estim…

Conversely, we can make the same argument in the opposite direction with the example of Seychelles, which in spite of the highest vaccination level in the world, is still seeing significant growth in cases: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-56992121

Apparently they're using 40% Astra Zeneca, 60% Sinopharm; hopefully the issue is simply the latter being ineffective. But as all the success stories with vaccination have also had very significant numbers of deaths with covid, we may need significant levels of natural immunity in conjunction with vaccine immunity to actually get cases to decline.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#20
post #17

Until it doesn't? I am far from an expert (so please correct me if I'm wrong), but isn't this like saying "the dam can stop any amount of water" ?

They're talking only about currently worrying variants, not all future possible ones.
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