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Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even when it’s offensive

latimes.com

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Re: Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even when it’s offensive

#11

Post by rajup »

harryh wrote: post #4
rbecker wrote: post #2

Just in case someone finds the examples in the article all acceptable censorship, here's a few more off the top of my head: Evergreen professor forced to resign for opposing day of white absence: https://blog.usejournal.com/the-controversy-of-bret-weinstei... UCLA professor placed under investigation for reading MLK's "Letter from a Birmingham Jail": https://freebeacon.com/issues/university-to-investigate-lect... Dat…

The last one about the data scientist tweet got even crazier : https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/06/white-fragility-raci...

Wow. That was an eye-opening read.

Re: Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even when it’s offensive

#12

Post by gamblor956 »

bryan_w wrote: post #10

The same free speech that is protecting racists today is the same one that prevented Gay people from being censored in the 90s for their "deviant" behavior.

Is your statement intended to be ironic?

Gay people were heavily censored in the early 90s outside of cities like San Francisco and West Hollywood. It wasn't until Will and Grace premiered in 1998 that the needle began moving toward acceptance.

Re: Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even when it’s offensive

#13

Post by api »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #7
the_resistence wrote: post #3

Regrettably, that is what's lost in all of this. Protesters against other opinions and belief systems strongly defend free speech so long as you are saying what they approve of.

The world, in general, is abandoning the past two centuries in which freedom has risen, to become illiberal, and enforce intellectual orthodoxies. It is more obvious and markedly so in in places like Turkey, but even here in the US we see those who would blacklist all political enemies and dissenters. These efforts will ultimately fail here, but not before grave harm is inflicted; history will judge us as harshly as…

I think part of it is the decay of discourse. People don't know how to discuss ideas in good faith. They just know how to troll, yell, make unfounded wild accusations, and meme. Basically we have a junior high level of public discourse.

People aren't open to hearing reasoned arguments either. A reasoned argument doesn't deliver the dopamine hit of a rant or a catchy meme.

In that environment the only thing possible is to deplatform. I mean what else is there to do? Nothing is being accomplished anyway.

Maybe we should just turn off social media. Deplatform it all.

Re: Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even when it’s offensive

#14

Post by ChristianBundy »

rbecker wrote: post #2

Just in case someone finds the examples in the article all acceptable censorship, here's a few more off the top of my head: Evergreen professor forced to resign for opposing day of white absence: https://blog.usejournal.com/the-controversy-of-bret-weinstei... UCLA professor placed under investigation for reading MLK's "Letter from a Birmingham Jail": https://freebeacon.com/issues/university-to-investigate-lect... Dat…

> Data scientist fired for retweeting study showing non-violent protests are more effective

This is a blatant misrepresentation. The tweet talked about "race riots" and Democrat election results. Many people would argue that the point of direct action is not to sway electoral votes toward the Democratic party.

Re: Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even when it’s offensive

#15

Post by klmadfejno »

As great as free speech is, I don't think western political systems will survive it if it's not accompanied by transparency and accountability. Humans are hard wired to perceive their environments as local. They are not local anymore. The bar of plausible deniability has sunk two inches into the mud we stand on for any dumbass political justification.

I don't want restrictions on free speech, but I also feel absolutely screwed by the way society functions right now.

Re: Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even when it’s offensive

#16

Post by gguevaraa »

rbecker wrote: post #2

Just in case someone finds the examples in the article all acceptable censorship, here's a few more off the top of my head: Evergreen professor forced to resign for opposing day of white absence: https://blog.usejournal.com/the-controversy-of-bret-weinstei... UCLA professor placed under investigation for reading MLK's "Letter from a Birmingham Jail": https://freebeacon.com/issues/university-to-investigate-lect... Dat…

This one[0] gets the noggin' joggin'. Cambridge defends one of their profs saying "White Lives Don't Matter" yet were quick to rescind their invitation for Jordan Peterson for "controversial" comments [1].

[0]: https://www.varsity.co.uk/news/19539 [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/mar/20/cambridge-...

Re: Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even when it’s offensive

#17

Post by monocasa »

ChristianBundy wrote: post #14
rbecker wrote: post #2

Just in case someone finds the examples in the article all acceptable censorship, here's a few more off the top of my head: Evergreen professor forced to resign for opposing day of white absence: https://blog.usejournal.com/the-controversy-of-bret-weinstei... UCLA professor placed under investigation for reading MLK's "Letter from a Birmingham Jail": https://freebeacon.com/issues/university-to-investigate-lect... Dat…

> Data scientist fired for retweeting study showing non-violent protests are more effective This is a blatant misrepresentation. The tweet talked about "race riots" and Democrat election results. Many people would argue that the point of direct action is not to sway electoral votes toward the Democratic party.

And particularly, that election was in the middle of the southern strategy switch, and the Democratic party didn't define itself as the left wing of acceptable politics in the nation as it does today. Particularly the Southern Democrats hadn't overwhelmingly converted over to Republicans yet. It was only after the Civil Rights Act was passed (which was six days into the race riots mentioned, so real actionable change that came from them) that the Dixiecrats really started switching, and that took time (a few elections worth).

Re: Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even when it’s offensive

#18

Post by newacct583 »

rbecker wrote: post #2

Just in case someone finds the examples in the article all acceptable censorship, here's a few more off the top of my head: Evergreen professor forced to resign for opposing day of white absence: https://blog.usejournal.com/the-controversy-of-bret-weinstei... UCLA professor placed under investigation for reading MLK's "Letter from a Birmingham Jail": https://freebeacon.com/issues/university-to-investigate-lect... Dat…

Your first example isn't about speech. The school had a policy of a white absence day (which is batshit, but whatever) and he expressly violated that as an act of protest and got fired for breaking the rules. He'd been clearly opposed to it from the start and not censored.

Be very careful with that second link, that story was spun like crazy in conservative circles, and even weeks later it's impossible to find an account of what happened from anything other than the lecturer's perspective. I mean, that Free Beacon story is one of the worst examples: find me anywhere in that story that quotes a student or explains what they were upset about. The go to Google News and search for the guy's name, and you find a giant list of stories from conservative outlets (and none from mainstream sources) all with the same odd skew to the reporting. I think the jury is still out about what exactly was offensive, I'm guessing it wasn't just because he read an MLK speech. UCLA has not said anything yet.

The David Shor one is a good example though. Something crazy happened there and no one understands why he was fired.

Re: Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even when it’s offensive

#19

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

gamblor956 wrote: post #12
bryan_w wrote: post #10

The same free speech that is protecting racists today is the same one that prevented Gay people from being censored in the 90s for their "deviant" behavior.

Is your statement intended to be ironic? Gay people were heavily censored in the early 90s outside of cities like San Francisco and West Hollywood. It wasn't until Will and Grace premiered in 1998 that the needle began moving toward acceptance.

I mean, there was literally an official government policy called "Don't ask, don't tell".
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