Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Conversations among German Nuclear Physicists at Farm Hall (1945) [pdf]

germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 124 posts

Re: Conversations among German Nuclear Physicists at Farm Hall (1945) [pdf]

#11

Post by marksweston »

andrew_ wrote: post #4

Fascinating stuff, really interesting characters. I for one never knew the Germans were pursuing fission for the production of "engines". Do yourselves a favor and read the entire transcript. The comments about how they see history being written, specifically about the German contributions, comes across as particularly naive but evident of men who were clearly distraught and disoriented. And their predictions about S…

> Fascinating stuff, really interesting characters. I for one never knew the Germans were pursuing fission for the production of "engines". Do yourselves a favor and read the entire transcript.

I'm fairly sure that by "engines" they meant reactors.

Re: Conversations among German Nuclear Physicists at Farm Hall (1945) [pdf]

#12

Post by martin_a »

jkovacs wrote: post #6
martin_a wrote: post #3

As a German I would love to have read it in German or hear the audio files. Nevertheless an interesting piece of history.

Same here. I tracked down the German version on their website here: http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/pdf/deu/German101ed.pdf (PDF)

Thank you very much for that!

Re: Conversations among German Nuclear Physicists at Farm Hall (1945) [pdf]

#13

Post by skh »

porpoisely wrote: post #7

What an interesting read. Also, is it just me or are there a surprising number of german related topics on the frontpage right now? "We only had one man working on it and they may have had ten thousand" This is why I always chuckle at the ww2 "documentaries" positing the possibility of german or japanese bomb. Nevermind that both parties were preoccupied fighting far stronger and larger opponents ( US, British Empire…

After the Germans surrendered my dad's division was scheduled to be transferred to the Pacific for the invasion of Japan. At least that is what they were told. He was happy to hear of the bombings on Nagasaki and Hiroshima since from his perspective it caused the Japanese to surrender.

Of course it's debatable on whether or not those bombings did indeed cause the surrender of Japan. Politically the U.S. has not been a nation to stomach large numbers of its soldiers being killed. The actions on Iwo Jima and Okinawa were far more bloody than the public cared for. How many more such battles would a war weary public have endured? Nagasaki and Hiroshima were not military targets but they were political targets.

I don't know if the bombings were morally right or wrong and can see the argument both ways. But from at least one drafted soldier's perspective they were a good thing.

Re: Conversations among German Nuclear Physicists at Farm Hall (1945) [pdf]

#14

Post by JoeDaDude »

porpoisely wrote: post #7

What an interesting read. Also, is it just me or are there a surprising number of german related topics on the frontpage right now? "We only had one man working on it and they may have had ten thousand" This is why I always chuckle at the ww2 "documentaries" positing the possibility of german or japanese bomb. Nevermind that both parties were preoccupied fighting far stronger and larger opponents ( US, British Empire…

The military did see a lot of utility in the atomic bomb, though they did not fully grasp the effects. Ostensibly, General MacArthur looked at using atomic bombs to clear the beach heads of Japan before sending in the Marines, which would have killed a lot of the latter.

Re: Conversations among German Nuclear Physicists at Farm Hall (1945) [pdf]

#15

Post by gandhium »

skh wrote: post #13
porpoisely wrote: post #7

What an interesting read. Also, is it just me or are there a surprising number of german related topics on the frontpage right now? "We only had one man working on it and they may have had ten thousand" This is why I always chuckle at the ww2 "documentaries" positing the possibility of german or japanese bomb. Nevermind that both parties were preoccupied fighting far stronger and larger opponents ( US, British Empire…

After the Germans surrendered my dad's division was scheduled to be transferred to the Pacific for the invasion of Japan. At least that is what they were told. He was happy to hear of the bombings on Nagasaki and Hiroshima since from his perspective it caused the Japanese to surrender. Of course it's debatable on whether or not those bombings did indeed cause the surrender of Japan. Politically the U.S. has not been…

> it's debatable on whether or not those bombings did indeed cause the surrender of Japan

They were specifically mentioned in emperor's address. Yes, they caused the surrender.

> Nagasaki and Hiroshima were not military targets

They were military targets. There was army HQ, troops stationed there, factories which were producing military goods.

Re: Conversations among German Nuclear Physicists at Farm Hall (1945) [pdf]

#16

Post by porpoisely »

JoeDaDude wrote: post #14
porpoisely wrote: post #7

What an interesting read. Also, is it just me or are there a surprising number of german related topics on the frontpage right now? "We only had one man working on it and they may have had ten thousand" This is why I always chuckle at the ww2 "documentaries" positing the possibility of german or japanese bomb. Nevermind that both parties were preoccupied fighting far stronger and larger opponents ( US, British Empire…

The military did see a lot of utility in the atomic bomb, though they did not fully grasp the effects. Ostensibly, General MacArthur looked at using atomic bombs to clear the beach heads of Japan before sending in the Marines, which would have killed a lot of the latter.

I didn't say the military didn't see the utility of the atomic bomb, I said the military saw no military utility in hiroshima and nagasaki. There is a difference between using the bomb to kill soldiers and to destroy/irradiate and kill civilians. Just like there is a a military utility of the gun to kill enemy soldiers, but no military utility to shooting children.

For example, a concentration camp to keep enemy soldiers is far different than a concentration camp to keep jewish, japanese american, etc civilians ( fathers, mothers and children ).

And it's odd that you bring up macarthur since we know for a fact that he was against hiroshima and nagasaki.

"When I asked General MacArthur about the decision to drop the bomb, I was surprised to learn he had not even been consulted. What, I asked, would his advice have been? He replied that he saw no military justification for the dropping of the bomb. The war might have ended weeks earlier, he said, if the United States had agreed, as it later did anyway, to the retention of the institution of the emperor."

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-mitchell/countdown-to-hi...

Re: Conversations among German Nuclear Physicists at Farm Hall (1945) [pdf]

#17

Post by porpoisely »

skh wrote: post #13
porpoisely wrote: post #7

What an interesting read. Also, is it just me or are there a surprising number of german related topics on the frontpage right now? "We only had one man working on it and they may have had ten thousand" This is why I always chuckle at the ww2 "documentaries" positing the possibility of german or japanese bomb. Nevermind that both parties were preoccupied fighting far stronger and larger opponents ( US, British Empire…

After the Germans surrendered my dad's division was scheduled to be transferred to the Pacific for the invasion of Japan. At least that is what they were told. He was happy to hear of the bombings on Nagasaki and Hiroshima since from his perspective it caused the Japanese to surrender. Of course it's debatable on whether or not those bombings did indeed cause the surrender of Japan. Politically the U.S. has not been…

It isn't debatable because we know hiroshima and nagasaki had no bearing on the japanese decision to surrender. If the nukes were the cause of japan's surrender, hiroshima would have been enough and nagasaki wouldn't have happened.

Also, there is no ambiguity to the morality of hiroshima or nagasaki. No more than there is any ambiguity to the morality of nazi death camps. They were both racially driven war crimes and crimes against humanity. And as mcnamara said, if we had lost the war, our leaders would have been executed for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Re: Conversations among German Nuclear Physicists at Farm Hall (1945) [pdf]

#19

Post by mikeash »

> WEIZSÄCKER: I think it's dreadful of the Americans to have done it. I think it is madness on their part.

> HEISENBERG: One can't say that. One could equally well say "That's the quickest way of ending the war.”

And there’s seven decades’ worth of debate summed up in an instant on the day of the first bombing.

Something to keep in mind next time I feel tempted to argue about it.

Re: Conversations among German Nuclear Physicists at Farm Hall (1945) [pdf]

#20

Post by mgoetzke »

matt4077 wrote: post #8
sanqui wrote: post #5

Highlight for me: > WEIZSÄCKER: I don't think we ought to make excuses now because we did not succeed, but we must admit that we didn't want to succeed. If we had put the same energy into it as the Americans and had wanted it as they did, it is quite certain that we would not have succeeded as they would have smashed up the factories. > WEIZSÄCKER: One can say it might have been a much greater tragedy for the world i…

Von Weizsäcker, and his family, are extremely interesting. The father was a somewhat reluctant ambassador to Britain. The four brothers all were highly successful, as a physicist, a politician (President of Germany in the 90s), an economist, and a political scientist. I had the honor to study with the economist. I rarely get the explicit idea that someone is smarter or dumber than me. But with him, it was so obvious…

Richard von Weizsäcker (President of Germany) was fabulous. Every interview worth reading, every word well chosen. Nobody since has lived up to that high standard yet in my opinion.
Post reply on HN