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Launch HN: CSPA (YC S18) – SAT for Software Engineers

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Re: Launch HN: CSPA (YC S18) – SAT for Software Engineers

#11
post #8

Sample exam, for those interested: https://cspa.io/sample-exam

First off, I like the idea. Tech interviews are so broken that I'm happy to see folks trying to make things better.

I just started clicking through this and stopped at question 7: "How many bits are in 8 bytes?"

I don't know if this is intentional or not, but this is an ambiguous question. I suspect the "right" answer is the one that assumes 8 bits in an byte, but historically that assumption is not always true, e.g. lots of IETF RFCs refer to "octets" rather than "bytes" to avoid the confusion.

I bring this up not to quibble about historical architectures, but to address another item I recall from my SAT/ACT taking days--getting into the head of the question writer. When I saw this question I thought, "Are they looking for the current/common interpretation, or do they expect me to know mostly useless trivia about the history of the definition of byte?"

Perhaps I'm overthinking it. I probably am. But for that specific question, the answer is "it depends." And based on that, there is no 100% correct answer offered, so I'm left choosing the next best answer, which is probably the one most folks would select anyway.

Was this intentional? Again, it's been a long time since I've taken these types of tests.

Re: Launch HN: CSPA (YC S18) – SAT for Software Engineers

#12
I scanned through the "General" questions in the practice test linked on the thread, paying particular attention to the "Security" questions.

Not the best.

There are two questions regarding denial-of-service attacks. One of them I found hard to answer (had a plausible answer and a plausible "none of the above"). The second one was clearer but still ambiguous. Weirdly, the ambiguity in both questions stemmed from the use of an HTTP POST login as the possible DOS vector --- why? Why use that confusing example?

The 2FA question I saw had two valid examples of 2FA (push notifications and chip-and-pin) but no "all-of-the-above". I'm curious which of those two the author has demoted.

The phishing question I'm just irritated at the superficiality of; everyone will get the right answer, but the right answer misses the point and the power of phishing attacks, which isn't "websites that look like real websites" but rather the lures (like targeted emails) that get people onto those sites. But, whatever.

The password management advice question asked for a "best" from several subjective answers.

The SMS 2FA question had two valid answers and no matching "these-two-answers" answer. I'm pretty sure the answer that wss being looked for was the social-engineering phone-porting one (which is weird, because the first answer is "SMS 2FA is considered secure by current industry standards", which is certainly true for most reasonable definitions of "industry standards"). But also: that's not even the biggest problem with SMS 2FA.

There was a blockchain question. Who is this for? I'll buy that every working programmer needs to know how a phishing attack works (though perhaps not what distinguishes, in the test author's mind, a DDoS attack from a DoS attack). How many working programmers know how blockchains work?

Similarly: there was a GAN question. Come on. What was the point of that?

Finally: it's a six hour test. You weren't kidding when you called it "the SAT for programmers". It's not an especially pleasant experience (I like the interface, though). This test is a very big ask of candidates, and I think a short ways through the test it becomes clear that there's not much intrinsic merit to it; it's just a hurdle.

Re: Launch HN: CSPA (YC S18) – SAT for Software Engineers

#13
post #12

I scanned through the "General" questions in the practice test linked on the thread, paying particular attention to the "Security" questions. Not the best. There are two questions regarding denial-of-service attacks. One of them I found hard to answer (had a plausible answer and a plausible "none of the above"). The second one was clearer but still ambiguous. Weirdly, the ambiguity in both questions stemmed from the…

Six hour test on top of whatever time you spend interviewing. Because you know companies will still have you interview.

Re: Launch HN: CSPA (YC S18) – SAT for Software Engineers

#14
post #12

I scanned through the "General" questions in the practice test linked on the thread, paying particular attention to the "Security" questions. Not the best. There are two questions regarding denial-of-service attacks. One of them I found hard to answer (had a plausible answer and a plausible "none of the above"). The second one was clearer but still ambiguous. Weirdly, the ambiguity in both questions stemmed from the…

Six hour test on top of whatever time you spend interviewing. Because you know companies will still have you interview.

They would have to, since this is a general-knowledge programming test.

Re: Launch HN: CSPA (YC S18) – SAT for Software Engineers

#15
post #9

Why does it take 3 to 10 days to process results? What's stopping you from delivering results within a second? Edit: I didn't see that there was open ended responses or a programming project on some of the exams because I was looking at the sample exam, which only has multiple choice.

[deleted]

Re: Launch HN: CSPA (YC S18) – SAT for Software Engineers

#17
post #2

Hi James and Angel congrats on the launch! Great issue to try to solve, hope you succeed. Thanks for the LAUNCHHN voucher code. I'd seen cspa.io on hackernews previously but the free voucher code was the motivation I needed to register for the core exam in April! I'm a uk-based maths grad previously in a datasci role, currently taking some time off to self-study computer sci and frontend/backend. Looking forward to c…

Thanks!

(1) When we retire old exam questions, we will make them available for practice. We're working on creating more study materials! I can't promise anything before April though.

(2) Ah the 440 FE is a typo. We updated the scoring algorithm a few months back and didn't update those examples. Most people try completing all 6 subject sections. It's up to you, but we do discourage optimizing this kind of test taking strategy, and "teaching to the test" ;P

Re: Launch HN: CSPA (YC S18) – SAT for Software Engineers

#18
post #8

Sample exam, for those interested: https://cspa.io/sample-exam

First off, I like the idea. Tech interviews are so broken that I'm happy to see folks trying to make things better. I just started clicking through this and stopped at question 7: "How many bits are in 8 bytes?" I don't know if this is intentional or not, but this is an ambiguous question. I suspect the "right" answer is the one that assumes 8 bits in an byte, but historically that assumption is not always true, e.g.…

We've found that that is indeed true. The more senior and knowledgeable you are, the most likely the answer is "it depends", because all the nuances and edge cases you know about.

We try to solve this with the standard "choose the BEST answer". We also do post-mortems and analyze the responses to disqualify or discount bad questions.

These are issues the CSPA Technical Steering Committee, which is responsible for the exam content, will deal with, in collaboration with our research advisor: https://cspa.io/about/team

Re: Launch HN: CSPA (YC S18) – SAT for Software Engineers

#19

I have a strange fetish for multi hour standardized testing, so this looks great to me. Thanks for posting and for the code! One question based on your responses in this thread: is this test intended to measure software engineering ability or computer science knowledge? EDIT - one more question after looking through the grading: do you see people studying for specific roles, or the entire test? While I think the latt…

Currently the Core Exam is 50/50. It's designed for career-readiness. Our Technical Steering Committee is composed of majority of hiring managers, so it's intended to be useful for them -- that is, what are the qualifications desired in an entry level software engineer?

We are debating having a Core general exam, and separate per-subject tests, similar to SAT I vs SAT II.

Re: Launch HN: CSPA (YC S18) – SAT for Software Engineers

#20

There are two requirements that I personally don’t feel very comfortable with: the first one is uploading a picture of my ID (How is it stored / backed up. Who has access: third party validator or your team?) and the other is adding logmein to let a proctor control my machine prior to the exam. I saw that one may take the exam in person. I don’t know if it’s allowed by your rules, but I suppose I can set up a VM for…

Our third party proctoring service handles the KYC, as well as the LogMeIn. We did some vetting, and they are used by some well-known MOOCs and universities' online courses. It's a concern of ours as well, which is why we try to offer in-person proctored tests or appointments.
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