Police Can Remotely Drive Your Stolen Tesla into Custody • Hacker News Board

Re: Police Can Remotely Drive Your Stolen Tesla into Custody

#11

Post by CathyWest » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 10:18 AM UTC

kkarakk wrote: post #9

rmason wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or have the car rendezvous with the nearest police car which wouldn't probably leave the thief time enough to exit. Even if he successfully gets away how likely is he then to steal another Tesla? Even if a hacker sells them a zero day hack then it will only last a single day before Tesla updates its entire fleet.

imagine a kid locked in a toasty car for a whole day before the update gets deployed

It would be the other way around. You wouldn't be able to electronically break in using the zero day after the update.

Then you do the same thing as you would in an unconnected car, break a window.

Re: Police Can Remotely Drive Your Stolen Tesla into Custody

#12

Post by oogali » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 11:19 AM UTC

King-Aaron wrote: post #8

pgreenwood wrote: post #5

- if the thief is inside he will remain locked inside until police can arrest them. Right, they'll just sit there patiently instead of kicking out the window at the next set of lights.

I've thought about the idea of a "lock the thief inside" kind of alarm system, but you're right. How do you stop them jumping out? I've also thought of this. 1. Lock doors, secure windows. 2. 100% throttle 3. after 15 seconds, 100% steer left Of course, there are certain... moral issues... surrounding this idea which have prevented it leaving the notes on a napkin stage.

100% throttle for 15 seconds means my car has gone through my garage door into my garage.

If another car isn't there to stop it, the car has now gone through my kitchen or my daughter's bedroom.

100% throttle for 15 seconds on a multi-level parking garage means my car has now plunged N stories, or gone for a swim into the pond/river/drainage ditch behind the parking garage.

Don't be judge, jury, and executioner.

Or in less cliche terms: separate the asset recovery function (where you can help without moral issue) from the law enforcement function (where you cannot help without creating moral and privacy issues).

Just immobilize the car: the car's owner, leasing/financing company, insurance company, and police department will all be happy with just that.

Re: Police Can Remotely Drive Your Stolen Tesla into Custody

#13

Post by dandare » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 11:54 AM UTC

> Imagine this: You’re leaving work, walking to your car...

Imagine this: You’re leaving work, walking to your car, you close the door and your car arrests you and takes you against your will to a black prison site.

Re: Police Can Remotely Drive Your Stolen Tesla into Custody

#14

Post by mmcwilliams » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 12:17 PM UTC

rmason wrote: post #6

pgreenwood wrote: post #5

- if the thief is inside he will remain locked inside until police can arrest them. Right, they'll just sit there patiently instead of kicking out the window at the next set of lights.

Or have the car rendezvous with the nearest police car which wouldn't probably leave the thief time enough to exit. Even if he successfully gets away how likely is he then to steal another Tesla? Even if a hacker sells them a zero day hack then it will only last a single day before Tesla updates its entire fleet.

Couldn’t that be thwarted by thieves using car covers that were designed and made to act like Faraday cages? Like those bags they sell for cellphones?

This would prevent automatic updates to the software and remote control at the same time.

Re: Police Can Remotely Drive Your Stolen Tesla into Custody

#15

Post by tomatotomato37 » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 2:38 PM UTC

mmcwilliams wrote: post #14

rmason wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or have the car rendezvous with the nearest police car which wouldn't probably leave the thief time enough to exit. Even if he successfully gets away how likely is he then to steal another Tesla? Even if a hacker sells them a zero day hack then it will only last a single day before Tesla updates its entire fleet.

Couldn’t that be thwarted by thieves using car covers that were designed and made to act like Faraday cages? Like those bags they sell for cellphones? This would prevent automatic updates to the software and remote control at the same time.

They could do that, or they could use a 30 year old flatbed tow truck bought at auction for $800

Re: Police Can Remotely Drive Your Stolen Tesla into Custody

#16

Post by sepen77 » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 2:58 PM UTC

dandare wrote: post #13

> Imagine this: You’re leaving work, walking to your car... Imagine this: You’re leaving work, walking to your car, you close the door and your car arrests you and takes you against your will to a black prison site.

This is basically Minority Report

Re: Police Can Remotely Drive Your Stolen Tesla into Custody

#17

Post by gcb0 » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 2:59 PM UTC

headcanon wrote: post #7

> “The police tested several cars; Tesla, Audi, Mercedes, and Toyota,” he continues. “We do this in collaboration with these car companies because this information is valuable to them, too. If we can hack into their cars, others can as well.” At least they have the right attitude about it, as opposed to "Don't worry, only we can hack it, you can trust us!"

it's too early in the morning and I don't really follow conspiracy theories that close to remember details now, but didn't a journalist working with NSA(?) leak died last year when he supposedly accelerated his audi into a wall?

Re: Police Can Remotely Drive Your Stolen Tesla into Custody

#18

Post by gcb0 » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 3:02 PM UTC

dandare wrote: post #13

> Imagine this: You’re leaving work, walking to your car... Imagine this: You’re leaving work, walking to your car, you close the door and your car arrests you and takes you against your will to a black prison site.

imagine this: you're leaving work, walking into your car, and your car arest you and start driving to some remote area and your phone rings with text message with a dollar amount you have to transfer to avoid being kidnaped and killed.

great time to be a criminal, I guess.

Re: Police Can Remotely Drive Your Stolen Tesla into Custody

#19

Post by cpburns2009 » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 3:19 PM UTC

sepen77 wrote: post #16

dandare wrote: post #13

> Imagine this: You’re leaving work, walking to your car... Imagine this: You’re leaving work, walking to your car, you close the door and your car arrests you and takes you against your will to a black prison site.

This is basically Minority Report

Not quite. Minority Report is about pre-crime: a crime you haven't committed but allegedly will.

Re: Police Can Remotely Drive Your Stolen Tesla into Custody

#20

Post by burfog » Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 5:28 PM UTC

cpburns2009 wrote: post #19

sepen77 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is basically Minority Report

Not quite. Minority Report is about pre-crime: a crime you haven't committed but allegedly will.

Not the whole movie, just the way they try to capture him.

He's in that weird automated hover car with the rotating front/rear that can transition to/from being an elevator up the side of a building. It locks him in and starts driving to the police. He kicks out the window, then jumps onto another moving vehicle.

I think of this every time there is any discussion of cars that have data connections or can drive themselves. If stopping a driver is as easy as entering something into a computer, then it will be done far more often and with less justification.