This looks more like an exercise by someone trying (and in my opinion failing) to pass an ideological Turing test than a real argument.
If You Think Basic Income Is “Free Money” or Socialism, Think Again
11–20 of 114 posts
Re: If You Think Basic Income Is “Free Money” or Socialism, Think Again
#12I think that some sort of UBI has become absolutely necessary.
People who have money tend to have so much of it that they can't possibly spend it efficiently - There is no way for the money to trickle down evenly because wealthy individuals rarely interact with people who are outside of their own social class. In the case of extremely wealthy individuals, they even have to hire a security detail in order to further insulate themselves from the lower classes.
I think that's why cryptocurrencies are going up so much; the very rich can afford to keep 'throwing away' an unlimited amount of surplus money. I don't think cryptocurrencies are a bubble because bubbles only pop when the fear sets in; but if you have unlimited money which you don't care about losing, you have nothing to fear. The way I see it, cryptocurrencies are like UBI for tech people.
Re: If You Think Basic Income Is “Free Money” or Socialism, Think Again
#13I feel like this basic income ideology is really rooted in laziness - like, everyone likes free things, right? You don't have to work for it? But - do we ever really ask where that money is coming from? The rich just give it? So then, why would I work hard to become rich, if its just going to be taken from me? Its like income tax. Everyone loves paying tax on their income, right? (I, personally, do not.). So why don'…
That might be part of it. But things are rarely that simple. Another big argument is to act as a safety net allowing people to take bigger risks, like starting a startup.
Re: If You Think Basic Income Is “Free Money” or Socialism, Think Again
#14I feel like this basic income ideology is really rooted in laziness - like, everyone likes free things, right? You don't have to work for it? But - do we ever really ask where that money is coming from? The rich just give it? So then, why would I work hard to become rich, if its just going to be taken from me? Its like income tax. Everyone loves paying tax on their income, right? (I, personally, do not.). So why don'…
Technology itself is rooted in laziness.
I'm too lazy to wash my clothes and dishes so I have robotic washing boxes do it for me.
The protestant work ethic has no place in the 21st century, so lets drop it.
Re: If You Think Basic Income Is “Free Money” or Socialism, Think Again
#15Well, it is free money, that's the point; but neither that nor being "socialism" automatically makes it bad.
This article is an interesting way of pitching basic income to a "capitalist"/right audience by phrasing it in ways like "basic income is fuel for markets", "buying is like voting" (!) and "I like markets. I want to reduce the size of government. I want less bureaucracy. I want less administration. I want fewer government jobs."
Re: If You Think Basic Income Is “Free Money” or Socialism, Think Again
#16Basic income is a bottom-up stimulus package, like how bailouts for banks are "stimulus" packages but nestled in Reaganomics, i.e., expecting the money to trickle down. Except that bailouts sequester the money almost exclusively in the banking industry and so are useless for everyone except those who are already rich, and the government itself. Basic income fills the economy with money that can be really spent, and l…
How about I just point out the huge flaw here: Bank bailouts, in theory, are to be paid back, with interest. In a lot of cases they were. Not all, of course, but the economy turned. Net, bank bailouts were a good investment. QE may turn out to be as well (I may doubt that, but truth it the jury's still out) If that same deal can be made, believably, for basic income, we wouldn't be having this argument: we'd provide…
> group of expenses without any useful work.
Pensioners? Rentiers?
Re: If You Think Basic Income Is “Free Money” or Socialism, Think Again
#17This looks more like an exercise by someone trying (and in my opinion failing) to pass an ideological Turing test than a real argument.
What is an ideological Turing test? I don't think I understand your parenthetical remark.
Re: If You Think Basic Income Is “Free Money” or Socialism, Think Again
#18I feel like this basic income ideology is really rooted in laziness - like, everyone likes free things, right? You don't have to work for it? But - do we ever really ask where that money is coming from? The rich just give it? So then, why would I work hard to become rich, if its just going to be taken from me? Its like income tax. Everyone loves paying tax on their income, right? (I, personally, do not.). So why don'…
Taxing spending tends to be regressive. Rich people end up paying less tax as a proportion of their income while the poor end up paying more.
It is however less visible. Income tax is at least upfront about how much is taken whereas tax on spending is spread out and often invisible unless you're actively thinking about it.
Sure you can make people happier about taxation by making it less visible but I'm not sure that's a good argument for it.
Re: If You Think Basic Income Is “Free Money” or Socialism, Think Again
#19I feel like this basic income ideology is really rooted in laziness - like, everyone likes free things, right? You don't have to work for it? But - do we ever really ask where that money is coming from? The rich just give it? So then, why would I work hard to become rich, if its just going to be taken from me? Its like income tax. Everyone loves paying tax on their income, right? (I, personally, do not.). So why don'…
The problem is that sales tax is an extremely regressive model. If two people buy $100 of goods, but one makes an income of $100K a year and the other $20K, the taxes are effectively 5X higher for the person making less money.
No one likes paying any taxes, but at least income tax aligns the motivations of the individual with those of the government. If you make more money, you prosper, and so the government -- which ostensibly creates a society that helps you to prosper.
Re: If You Think Basic Income Is “Free Money” or Socialism, Think Again
#20Yes, it's a free money! What else it could be?? You give free money to people who don't work (and probably don't want to work at all) and you naively expect them to have high-level of responsibility in the sense they eventually find a job and pay back money in form of taxes. Do you know what's happen if you give free money to people? They just ask for more money! They won't feel guilty for not working because they wo…
Perhaps, as a society, we don't need everyone "working" (as in participating in work-for-wages, as opposed to other forms of ad-hoc and uncompensated work). In fact, the idea that we do is very new - it's only really in the last 60 years or so that women, a good 50% of the working-age population, have entered the workforce.
Instead of using involuntary sexism as a basis for shrinking the working population, perhaps building a system in which working several hours 5-7 days a week for a wage is more voluntary would be a good thing and allow the rebuilding of communities and society.