If You Think Basic Income Is “Free Money” or Socialism, Think Again
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Re: If You Think Basic Income Is “Free Money” or Socialism, Think Again
#2Basic income is a bottom-up stimulus package, like how bailouts for banks are "stimulus" packages but nestled in Reaganomics, i.e., expecting the money to trickle down. Except that bailouts sequester the money almost exclusively in the banking industry and so are useless for everyone except those who are already rich, and the government itself.
Basic income fills the economy with money that can be really spent, and like the article says people will vote with their dollars. I can't understand why free market fanboys don't like it! It's the best way to incite competition in the marketplace by removing the exploitative (i.e., freedom-revoking) abilities of the companies that prey on the lifestyles of low-income workers who are stuck working multiple jobs just to get by.
Re: If You Think Basic Income Is “Free Money” or Socialism, Think Again
#3What an idiot
Re: If You Think Basic Income Is “Free Money” or Socialism, Think Again
#4After a few years of reading UBI (Universal Basic Income) debates I come to the conclusion that it is impossible to teach humans new tricks. The way you earn and spend money is deeply ingrained into our brains.
When the Neanderthal used the ATM he knew that it was his successful killing of a sabre tooth that lead to the money he had in his hands.
Maybe we should just skip this immediate step and go full on Star Trek/Venus Project.
Re: If You Think Basic Income Is “Free Money” or Socialism, Think Again
#5The term "free money" is a silly put down term designed to close a discussion before it even started. Nothing is free. Money comes from somewhere, and it goes somewhere.
Even if this money did not end up creating more jobs, or reducing health care costs and so on, it's still going somewhere and doing something.
Re: If You Think Basic Income Is “Free Money” or Socialism, Think Again
#6Basic income is a bottom-up stimulus package, like how bailouts for banks are "stimulus" packages but nestled in Reaganomics, i.e., expecting the money to trickle down. Except that bailouts sequester the money almost exclusively in the banking industry and so are useless for everyone except those who are already rich, and the government itself. Basic income fills the economy with money that can be really spent, and l…
How about I just point out the huge flaw here:
Bank bailouts, in theory, are to be paid back, with interest. In a lot of cases they were. Not all, of course, but the economy turned. Net, bank bailouts were a good investment. QE may turn out to be as well (I may doubt that, but truth it the jury's still out)
If that same deal can be made, believably, for basic income, we wouldn't be having this argument: we'd provide basic income, today, as a loan. Hell, I'd fight to add my own money to provide that basic income.
Since you pretty much don't like me anymore at this point, why not just go ahead and fully state the problem:
What we cannot have in the economy, is a large, and potentially exponentially growing, group of expenses without any useful work.
And when I mean "we cannot" I don't mean that I'm denying this to you. I don't mean states don't want it. I don't mean I don't want to give everyone that. I mean we cannot. Any such policy must fail in a limited amount of time.
I mean you cannot have basic income for any length of time in the same sense that you cannot paint the sky green. Disappointing perhaps, but simply a parameter of existence, nothing more.
You shouldn't blame economics for this. Nor should you blame states, banks, the rich, or anyone. The only things to be blamed for it is thermodynamics. Of course the universe couldn't exist stably without those laws, so maybe math itself should bear the guilt.
Re: If You Think Basic Income Is “Free Money” or Socialism, Think Again
#7Yes, it's a free money! What else it could be??
You give free money to people who don't work (and probably don't want to work at all) and you naively expect them to have high-level of responsibility in the sense they eventually find a job and pay back money in form of taxes.
Do you know what's happen if you give free money to people? They just ask for more money! They won't feel guilty for not working because they would think it's rich people who has to pay back what they "stole from society" during last centuries. They would create complicated conspiracy stories which justify their side.
Many people (if not most!) are completely irresponsible for their own life. Face it! If it were not true, people in Russia wouldn't support paternalistic ideology of Putin's government, people in Venezuela wouldn't buy free-lunch ideology of Hugo Chavez, people around the world wouldn't believe in god to whom they would beg for solving their problems.
The only reason many people work (and contribute to economy) instead of drinking beer is that they need money for that beer. If you don't believe me, just go to Ibiza's San Antonio West End street and see how brits got wasted.
Re: If You Think Basic Income Is “Free Money” or Socialism, Think Again
#8The term "free money" is a silly put down term designed to close a discussion before it even started. Nothing is free. Money comes from somewhere, and it goes somewhere. Even if this money did not end up creating more jobs, or reducing health care costs and so on, it's still going somewhere and doing something.
> Money comes from somewhere
Someone entering a few zeros behind another non-zero number into a bank lending system.
http://positivemoney.org/how-money-works/how-banks-create-mo...
Re: If You Think Basic Income Is “Free Money” or Socialism, Think Again
#9I feel like this basic income ideology is really rooted in laziness - like, everyone likes free things, right? You don't have to work for it?
But - do we ever really ask where that money is coming from? The rich just give it? So then, why would I work hard to become rich, if its just going to be taken from me?
Its like income tax. Everyone loves paying tax on their income, right? (I, personally, do not.). So why don't we switch to taxing spending, instead? I'd much rather see the income tax abolished before any UBI fantasy ...
Re: If You Think Basic Income Is “Free Money” or Socialism, Think Again
#10Yes, it's a free money! What else it could be?? You give free money to people who don't work (and probably don't want to work at all) and you naively expect them to have high-level of responsibility in the sense they eventually find a job and pay back money in form of taxes. Do you know what's happen if you give free money to people? They just ask for more money! They won't feel guilty for not working because they wo…
Basic income should be perceived by everyone. Working or not.