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Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

nature.com

11–20 of 114 posts

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#11
post #2

From the abstract: [...] Quality pre and post treatment fMRI data were collected from 16 of 19 patients. Decreased depressive symptoms were observed in all 19 patients at 1-week post-treatment and 47% met criteria for response at 5 weeks. [...]

N=19 is a very small sample size. I would be careful forming opinions based on this study.

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#12

Before self-medicating based on this combined with a self-diagnosis, consider that LSD and psilocybin have a nasty tendency of triggering latent psychological conditions if not taken in the appropriate dosage and in a controlled environment. [ref: http://www.nationaldrugstrategy.gov.au/internet/drugstrategy... ]

Is there proof that they have a tendency of triggering "latent" conditions, instead of generating the conditions? How can it be demonstated that conditions were latent before the use?

Could it also be the case that people with potential mental illnesses is more likely to try drugs? Therefore being a correlational relationship instead of a causal one?

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#13
post #2

From the abstract: [...] Quality pre and post treatment fMRI data were collected from 16 of 19 patients. Decreased depressive symptoms were observed in all 19 patients at 1-week post-treatment and 47% met criteria for response at 5 weeks. [...]

N=19 is a very small sample size. I would be careful forming opinions based on this study.

Yes it is much better to enjoy psilocybin oneself.

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#14
post #10

Assuming that psilocybin is effective at treating depression, I find myself wondering whether actual conscious experience (that is, being high) is an essential part of its effectiveness or not. To put this another way, imagine someone takes whatever dose of psilocybin and then is rendered unconsciousness until the perceptual effects wear off. Will there be any difference in its effectiveness as a treatment for depres…

I would assume so, that it’d be akin to a strong one-shot antidepressant. Psilocybin is quickly metabolised to psilocin, which binds to serotonin receptors. It might be more of a risk for a bad trip, though, unless you have good dream control.

Also, you’d definitely need to be rendered unconscious, haha—I can’t imagine trying to sleep naturally on mushrooms, although when I take them I always have the most beautifully restful sleep after coming down.

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#15
post #10

Assuming that psilocybin is effective at treating depression, I find myself wondering whether actual conscious experience (that is, being high) is an essential part of its effectiveness or not. To put this another way, imagine someone takes whatever dose of psilocybin and then is rendered unconsciousness until the perceptual effects wear off. Will there be any difference in its effectiveness as a treatment for depres…

To refine your question further[0]: is this an effect of the psychological experience of tripping on mushrooms, or is this a physiological effect of the drug itself?

In either case, it may explain some habitual drugs users who are actually self-medicating. It could be that in a few years, they're doing the exact same thing but with a prescription to make it all morally upstanding.

[0]Correct me if I'm misunderstanding.

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#16
post #10

Assuming that psilocybin is effective at treating depression, I find myself wondering whether actual conscious experience (that is, being high) is an essential part of its effectiveness or not. To put this another way, imagine someone takes whatever dose of psilocybin and then is rendered unconsciousness until the perceptual effects wear off. Will there be any difference in its effectiveness as a treatment for depres…

Yes, it would still work because the current hypothesis is that it's the resulting increase in neurogenesis which is responsible for the amelioration of depression.

Neurogenesis in general seems to be inversely proportional to experiences of depression.

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#17
post #12

Before self-medicating based on this combined with a self-diagnosis, consider that LSD and psilocybin have a nasty tendency of triggering latent psychological conditions if not taken in the appropriate dosage and in a controlled environment. [ref: http://www.nationaldrugstrategy.gov.au/internet/drugstrategy... ]

Is there proof that they have a tendency of triggering "latent" conditions, instead of generating the conditions? How can it be demonstated that conditions were latent before the use? Could it also be the case that people with potential mental illnesses is more likely to try drugs? Therefore being a correlational relationship instead of a causal one?

Most of this effect is survivor bias. The people that don't have a problem - regardless of their past or future mental health - don't attract as much attention.

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#18
post #10

Assuming that psilocybin is effective at treating depression, I find myself wondering whether actual conscious experience (that is, being high) is an essential part of its effectiveness or not. To put this another way, imagine someone takes whatever dose of psilocybin and then is rendered unconsciousness until the perceptual effects wear off. Will there be any difference in its effectiveness as a treatment for depres…

I would assume so, that it’d be akin to a strong one-shot antidepressant. Psilocybin is quickly metabolised to psilocin, which binds to serotonin receptors. It might be more of a risk for a bad trip, though, unless you have good dream control. Also, you’d definitely need to be rendered unconscious, haha—I can’t imagine trying to sleep naturally on mushrooms, although when I take them I always have the most beautifull…

Propofol would do the trick (in a clinical setting).

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#19
post #10

Assuming that psilocybin is effective at treating depression, I find myself wondering whether actual conscious experience (that is, being high) is an essential part of its effectiveness or not. To put this another way, imagine someone takes whatever dose of psilocybin and then is rendered unconsciousness until the perceptual effects wear off. Will there be any difference in its effectiveness as a treatment for depres…

Yes, it would still work because the current hypothesis is that it's the resulting increase in neurogenesis which is responsible for the amelioration of depression. Neurogenesis in general seems to be inversely proportional to experiences of depression.

That's assuming that the same neurogenesis still happens in the absence of a conscious experience. Do you have evidence that supports this?

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#20
post #15
post #10

Assuming that psilocybin is effective at treating depression, I find myself wondering whether actual conscious experience (that is, being high) is an essential part of its effectiveness or not. To put this another way, imagine someone takes whatever dose of psilocybin and then is rendered unconsciousness until the perceptual effects wear off. Will there be any difference in its effectiveness as a treatment for depres…

To refine your question further[0]: is this an effect of the psychological experience of tripping on mushrooms, or is this a physiological effect of the drug itself? In either case, it may explain some habitual drugs users who are actually self-medicating. It could be that in a few years, they're doing the exact same thing but with a prescription to make it all morally upstanding. [0]Correct me if I'm misunderstandin…

In regard to you second part, that has happened/is happening in the US on a state by state basis with marijuana.
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