I truly love the country of México - I have spent a large periods of time there for the climate, as a place to work and have a wonderful life, away from the chills of winter. I often thought about making a permanent relocation, but this terror is too real and I found myself living in constant anxiety of my friends and colleagues being in danger, and the fear of speaking your mind weighs on you after a while. I am saddened because the people, the food, the weather, the architecture (particularly D.F.) makes for a crazy, exciting mix where the wealth and treasure of history and (deserved) national pride contrasts with poverty and the political and social conservatism that goes alongside. México: may things improve for you, though I really have no idea how that will happen.
Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue
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Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed, but let's make that even more general. No need to limit that to "real journalists", since then you're just asking for people to build an ivory tower and use it as a power base for control of "non-real" "journalists". Everyone needs to be free to speak their minds. Freedom of speech is for everyone.
Journalists need more than freedom of speech, they also need freedom to investigate. I suspect handing that to everyone is still ok, but speech is not enough.
Everyone needs the freedom to investigate, too.
Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue
#13Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed, but let's make that even more general. No need to limit that to "real journalists", since then you're just asking for people to build an ivory tower and use it as a power base for control of "non-real" "journalists". Everyone needs to be free to speak their minds. Freedom of speech is for everyone.
Journalists need more than freedom of speech, they also need freedom to investigate. I suspect handing that to everyone is still ok, but speech is not enough.
Sounds like a huge grey area.
Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue
#14No offense (really), but I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you're a guy, because ...
* https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/apr/11/women-onl...
* http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2016/07/29/femini...
* https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22429996-000-the-figh...
* http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3454588/Women-game...
Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue
#15This is why real journalist need to be protected regardless where you stand on the issues. It's a pillar of democracy for a very important reason.
The problem is that these days, everyone has a different definition of "real journalist," and the group of people who fit that definition tend to be strongly correlated with the group of people who agree with the definer politically.
Indeed. I think the "real journalist" should be dropped: everyone needs to have the right and the protection to be able to do that job.
Then, the "real journalist" could be just a matter of having capability, devotion and determination, not a class of people with special status.
Unfortunately too much of "journalism" is nowadays just activism, using their position to try to influence others (end even shut down the voice of other people because they think this is even more effective influencing).
Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue
#16No offense (really), but I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you're a guy, because ... * https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/apr/11/women-onl... * http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2016/07/29/femini... * https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22429996-000-the-figh... * http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3454588/Women-game...
No lives were actually at risk in the linked stories, though: lives are at risk in Mexico.
Some twit threatening you does mean that your life is at risk; a drug lord trying to kill you does.
Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed, but let's make that even more general. No need to limit that to "real journalists", since then you're just asking for people to build an ivory tower and use it as a power base for control of "non-real" "journalists". Everyone needs to be free to speak their minds. Freedom of speech is for everyone.
Exactly. And "Freedom of Speech" is a broad term, with a wide variety of implications. Freedom of speech also means being able to channel ideas that aren't as popular and most of the mainstream media may not agree with. People should be able to express those ideas as well.
> People should be able to express those ideas as well
No. There is no place in the world for antisemitism, homophobia or other right-extremist views. These "opinions" are direct threats to people. And when the state, as it often does, fails to protect the marginalized, then in my opinion nearly anything is acceptable to stop these "opinions" from being expressed.
We in Germany already have seen what happens when you let Nazis speak out and act in free, and the same goes for Stalinist ideologies - and also in America we see what happens. Evil to the core, all of it.
Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue
#18No offense (really), but I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you're a guy, because ... * https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/apr/11/women-onl... * http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2016/07/29/femini... * https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22429996-000-the-figh... * http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3454588/Women-game...
Guys get those threats and abuse as well, they're just not worth a gender-specific headline because they're guys.
Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue
#19This is why real journalist need to be protected regardless where you stand on the issues. It's a pillar of democracy for a very important reason.
Agreed, but let's make that even more general. No need to limit that to "real journalists", since then you're just asking for people to build an ivory tower and use it as a power base for control of "non-real" "journalists". Everyone needs to be free to speak their minds. Freedom of speech is for everyone.
We're at a precarious time in history when journalism is being used particularly effectively as an intentional disinformation tool. "Real journalism" unfortunately does need to be distinguished. Free speech doesn't encompass fraud.
Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. And "Freedom of Speech" is a broad term, with a wide variety of implications. Freedom of speech also means being able to channel ideas that aren't as popular and most of the mainstream media may not agree with. People should be able to express those ideas as well.
> People should be able to express those ideas as well No. There is no place in the world for antisemitism, homophobia or other right-extremist views. These "opinions" are direct threats to people. And when the state, as it often does, fails to protect the marginalized, then in my opinion nearly anything is acceptable to stop these "opinions" from being expressed. We in Germany already have seen what happens when you…
You tell me what your model speech code would look like, and I'll show you how I could use it to shut your speech down within a decade.