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Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

nytimes.com

11–20 of 279 posts

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#11
> ... were not in the labor force, which means that they were not employed and were not seeking a job.

Does entrepreneurs constitute labor force? If so, then "labor force" and "not employed and not seeking a job" are not exactly the same

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#12

> 31 percent of those receiving benefits have mental disorders This has got to be a major contributing factor. Add in those with undiagnosed psych problems, and I'm sure it would stand out even more. [Of course, maybe they would be balanced out by the 'fakers'-- but that is almost equally alarming, and itself suggests all kinds of deeper problems.] Both reducing the stigma of and increasing access to mental health ca…

Unemployment causes depression and other types of mental reactions that are classified as disorders or diseases.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that many people are supposed to have mental 'disorders', perhaps the problem is really those wielding the alleged definition.

Have you ever gone through the process of being so mentally ill you can't work? It's quite difficult and not something one undergoes just because they want free money. It's dehumanizing and degrading to have to list all these ways you literally can't function like a mentally healthy human being. I know people who frankly have to choose between that and homelessness. To imply there's nothing wrong with these people an…

Hey I'm not claiming nobody's sick, just that if that many people have problems functioning in society then society's probably a big part of the problem.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#14
post #11

> ... were not in the labor force, which means that they were not employed and were not seeking a job. Does entrepreneurs constitute labor force? If so, then "labor force" and "not employed and not seeking a job" are not exactly the same

The number of entepreneurs is insignificantly small to matter in this study.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#16

> 31 percent of those receiving benefits have mental disorders This has got to be a major contributing factor. Add in those with undiagnosed psych problems, and I'm sure it would stand out even more. [Of course, maybe they would be balanced out by the 'fakers'-- but that is almost equally alarming, and itself suggests all kinds of deeper problems.] Both reducing the stigma of and increasing access to mental health ca…

If that many people are supposed to have mental 'disorders', perhaps the problem is really those wielding the alleged definition.

Your knee-jerk response to this statistic is symptomatic of the stygma attatched to mental illness in our society. If this was a statistic on a viral infection, would you be so doubtful?

This attitude is what keeps people from being willing to seek help when they suffer from depression or suicidal thoughts for fear that skeptics will judge them as faking or lacking character. As someone who lived for over ten years with multiple undiagnosed mental disorders and suffered significant, unnecesary setbacks as a result, I believe we still have a ways to go before mental health is treated with the appropriate amount of concern.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever gone through the process of being so mentally ill you can't work? It's quite difficult and not something one undergoes just because they want free money. It's dehumanizing and degrading to have to list all these ways you literally can't function like a mentally healthy human being. I know people who frankly have to choose between that and homelessness. To imply there's nothing wrong with these people an…

Hey I'm not claiming nobody's sick, just that if that many people have problems functioning in society then society's probably a big part of the problem.

Your rhetoric implies an allegation of sickness rather than them actually being sick. I'm not going to deny that society may have contributing factors such as stigma or how society deals with traumatized individuals, but to imply that that many people being that sick is to be prescribed to an issue with the definition of being mentally ill strikes me as strange.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#18
post #11

> ... were not in the labor force, which means that they were not employed and were not seeking a job. Does entrepreneurs constitute labor force? If so, then "labor force" and "not employed and not seeking a job" are not exactly the same

I'm not aware of any unemployment figure that includes small business owners or those who are self-employed.

The real question is, are people who retired early (see /r/financialindependence) counted in this figure? What about trust fund kids? I'd argue that if you have enough money to not need to work, and you aren't, and you don't want to, then you should slot into some category very different than the people who can't work and aren't self-sufficient financially.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever gone through the process of being so mentally ill you can't work? It's quite difficult and not something one undergoes just because they want free money. It's dehumanizing and degrading to have to list all these ways you literally can't function like a mentally healthy human being. I know people who frankly have to choose between that and homelessness. To imply there's nothing wrong with these people an…

Hey I'm not claiming nobody's sick, just that if that many people have problems functioning in society then society's probably a big part of the problem.

In fact, you claimed that many of the people diagnosed are actually fine. Please revise or walk back your statement if you want, but don't deny the plain meaning of your words.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#20
post #2

Comparing those numbers with Europe, whose safety net doesn't usually require people to pretend being disabled, would have been enlightening. A missed opportunity.

I would wager most of those people are disabled, but for psychological reasons. As you point out, the level of stress caused by financial insecurity during any period of disability is extremely high.

A lot of white collar workers in the US end up in a particular catch-22: their jobs are making them sick, but because they are sick, they can't leave their jobs. They become psychologically disabled because of the pressure to return to work before they are well, the stressor of battling the insurance companies, and the suffering from the cultural shame of not actively working.

Finally, after the 12-week FMLA requirement is exceeded, absent any policy, state law, contract, a company can fire an employee for absence after returning from, or even during, disability leave.

In conclusion, there is no doubt that there are some true "fakes" scamming the system. Afterall, the largest cause of disability is Generalized Anxiety Disorder, followed by several other "invisible" disabilities that cannot be objectively verified.

That makes me very upset, given that I sufferered a massively disruptive neuropathic pain disorder that only recently subsided enough to start coding again.

During those few months, I had to hear constant negative feedback from friends and relatives, usually telling me the equivalent of "Tough it out like a man."

This false perception was further compounded by the fact that I didn't look disabled. Every photo on Facebook caused a barrage of "I thought you were sick" comments, not realizing that my medical orders were to learn to resocialize despite the pain. Then that snapshot becomes people's vision of your illness, not realizing that the quiet dinner with your friends was the one hour you spent out of bed that day.

These skeptical responses are certainly due to the widespread deception by some, as you describe. I am just grateful that I had a "hard" medical diagnosis upon which to rely.

But some people really do need the disability insurance, which they have paid to obtain, in order to survive, not lose their homes, and pay for medical care during periods of tremendous suffering.

Everyone, please remember that not all illnesses present to the naked eye, or even to physical examination. We do not fully understand how either the human body, or more importantly, the human brain functions. Without that knowledge, it is almost impossible to tell the genuine afflictions from the false claims.

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