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The Drone Papers

theintercept.com

11–20 of 226 posts

Re: The Drone Papers

#11
post #9
post #5

There are lots of important points in this set of articles, but a few stand point: - Congress has not defined what "assassination" means; and since they haven't defined it, the Executive Order 12333 is effectively meaningless. https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/the-assassination-comp... - IMEIs are used to track targets. Can IMEIs be spoofed? - Military Aged Males are considered enemy combatants. Effectively that…

> Military Aged Males are considered enemy combatants. Effectively that means all males ages 18-49 are considered enemy combatants. Since you're guilty by association, your age makes you a target. As an American citizen I'm so ashamed that we do this.

Shame? How about anger, or rage, or wrath? How about an inflexible demand to stop war crimes.

No one wants to conduct a meaningful opposition because the American system will destroy them. We are ruled by fear.

Re: The Drone Papers

#13
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Military Aged Males are considered enemy combatants. Effectively that means all males ages 18-49 are considered enemy combatants. Since you're guilty by association, your age makes you a target. As an American citizen I'm so ashamed that we do this.

Shame? How about anger, or rage, or wrath? How about an inflexible demand to stop war crimes. No one wants to conduct a meaningful opposition because the American system will destroy them. We are ruled by fear.

Well yes, all that too. I agree with your statement about lack of opposition/dissent. It is horrible.

Re: The Drone Papers

#14
post #5

There are lots of important points in this set of articles, but a few stand point: - Congress has not defined what "assassination" means; and since they haven't defined it, the Executive Order 12333 is effectively meaningless. https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/the-assassination-comp... - IMEIs are used to track targets. Can IMEIs be spoofed? - Military Aged Males are considered enemy combatants. Effectively that…

>- IMEIs are used to track targets. Can IMEIs be spoofed?

Yes. Relatively trivially.

Re: The Drone Papers

#15
post #12

Hm. So what stops US from targeted killings in China? Russia? Europe? Only the probable retaliation?

Yeah. "Only" when the conflict could then escalate and the opponent has nuclear weapons is kind of understating the case.

Re: The Drone Papers

#17

Utterly disgusting, America conducts clear war crimes, tortures, bombs afghan hospitals, assisinates, all without consequence. I'm sure some idiot will tell me to vote, because that'll change the systemic corruption and nightmare that has taken hold of US power. Did voting in nazi Germany help? No because they were voted in, voting only legitimizes a political system completely captured by insiders and corporate jugg…

Voting for a major party candidate does not matter, since both major parties strongly support the status quo. I'd say 80% of the power structure influencing US politics strongly agrees with the status quo. It follows that anyone who can get elected president has essentially promised to continue the status quo.

However, I do think that voting for 3rd party candiates could help over time. If even 10% of Americans voted for a 3rd party candidate in a presidential election, things would start to change. If there were two viable 3rd party candidates things would change faster.

It seems that the 50% of eligible citizens who choose to vote very much prefer to vote for a major party candidate. This goes along with the general herd behavior of animals like us, and also makes sense in light of the massive amplification of differences between the parties. So much money is spent to magnify (and dignify) the smallest differences between candidates/parties so that the average person can come to think that his/her vote for one of those parties (and for the status quo) mattered.

The main reason we don't have much dissent is because of the vast efforts by the powerful and the media to focus on the delegitimization of nearly all institutions other than the US Government. NPR will cover nearly any story but never ask questions about the trustworthiness or legitimacy of any part of the US Government.

The occupy movement helps disempower private institutions, the NY Times stories about China flooding helps alienate us from other humans who live in China. And the presentation of the third world is much, much worse. There is a massive bias toward government institutions over private ones... Occupy is nowhere near as hard on the corrupt regulators as it is on the firms. All this helps squash dissent.

The Intercept seems to be one of the first efforts to offer the mainstream media consumer an alternative view. The internet has (so far) made it easier for powerful interests to shape opinion, but that may start to change as groups like The Intercept have the budget to do the kind of high quality reporting that can be tough to ignore.

But with so much money riding on continuation of the status quo, there will always be lots of influential people (academics, politicians, pundits, business leaders) who will completely ignore things like this in favor of focusing on one of the many silly issues covered by mainstream television and newspapers. As a case in point, Zuckerberg would absolutely never make a public statement supporting this reporting, since his interests are already quite closely tied to continuing the status quo. Similarly, Bezos now owns the WaPo but would never syndicate this coverage.

So more than voting, the issue is lack of dissent.

As an aside, the most telling aspect of this is when the US president suffers through a (very rare) interview. The journalist simply will not ask tough questions and the atmosphere is one of utter groveling and supplication. Of all things, I can't believe we are willing to live in a society where this happens... but it's considered such a rare honor to do a one hour on-on-one with a president that of course only the most ingratiating journalist (if one can call them that) would ever get the chance.

Re: The Drone Papers

#18

Utterly disgusting, America conducts clear war crimes, tortures, bombs afghan hospitals, assisinates, all without consequence. I'm sure some idiot will tell me to vote, because that'll change the systemic corruption and nightmare that has taken hold of US power. Did voting in nazi Germany help? No because they were voted in, voting only legitimizes a political system completely captured by insiders and corporate jugg…

Some alternatives to voting that come to my mind:

- Figure out the real reason why the US is at war with "terrorism", and do everything to help develop and popularize technology that will make that reason obsolete. Is it because of oil? Then become a Tesla evangelist.

- Keep talking, writing, shouting about the issue, shaming and blaming everyone even tangentially related to drone strikes. It's utterly ridiculous that you can lose your job and home and have life ruined over pissing off some random feminists on Twitter or Tumblr, and yet people responsible for drone attacks are all happy. We need to turn aiding the program to be Worse Than Hitler, no matter the dronesplaining and hellfireblaming they're doing.

- Help develop counter-drone tech and make sure it becomes widely distributed among people in the affected areas. Warning: this will likely paint you as a valid target.

- If you know anyone over at Hollywood, pitch for turning the problem into a movie. Not a documentary, but a good action movie. Big productions with top actors have a way to influence public around the entire world much stronger than anything a news station could ever tell. Get a good writer for the script and make sure the protagonist personally suffered from the strikes - say, his entire family was killed in a strike that targeted them because over at the US nobody gives a shit about confirming intelligence anymore.

- Put your money where your mouth is. It's easy to talk, much harder to do anything meaningful if it costs you something, but the latter is what really sends a clear signal. Put a "do no drone strikes" clause in your software license. If you own a shop or a restaurant, refuse to serve Air Force / Intelligence officers until they get their shit together. Yes, you'll probably affect directly everyone but the parties responsible - but this is a situation where guilt by association actually works. They will be talking about you over at watercooler or shooting range. Maybe someone higher up in hierarchy will start thinking about it and push feedback upwards. Yes, you'll lose some customers to competition that won't follow suit, but you already know they're greedy cowards, don't you?

Re: The Drone Papers

#20

Utterly disgusting, America conducts clear war crimes, tortures, bombs afghan hospitals, assisinates, all without consequence. I'm sure some idiot will tell me to vote, because that'll change the systemic corruption and nightmare that has taken hold of US power. Did voting in nazi Germany help? No because they were voted in, voting only legitimizes a political system completely captured by insiders and corporate jugg…

I guess people usually vote on domestic issues. Unless a war has direct consequences on the domestic level(draft,too many soldiers getting killed,cost of war...), they don't care.

The problem is not voting. Voting is a right but also iMHO a duty. The problem is usually the political offer. You have 2 parties on the national level, they agree on almost everything except minor stuff like gay marriage so voting for one or the other has very little impact on foreign policies.

On the federal level, it looks like democracy actually work better and independent candidates can win elections.

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