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Why CRT in sci fi deep space ships actualy make sense

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Why CRT in sci fi deep space ships actualy make sense

#1

Post by kokojumbo »

0. You have a space ship that is capable of some FTL or close to L speed so most likely you solved problem of easy production of electricity so drawing a lot of current should not be too much of an issue.

1. Ease of manufacturing – it ain't rocket science to make cathode ray tube one compared to other currently known displays. It's a macroscopic process with big parts if you are fine with analog oscilloscope/radar type display. Good luck producing LCD array with same level of tech in some remote colony light years from advanced foundries. There is a reason why we are using predominantly LCD just for less than 20 years really.

2. Lowering complicated integrated chips count. Good luck powering matrices of a lot of dots w/o actually attaching a separate computer to it.

3. High refresh rates – good for emergency situations or combat.

4. They integrate well with analog computers which might be used per point 0 with big enough precision (and possibly responsiveness if there were some advancements in OpAmps) speeding up calculus stuff which means simpler Arithmetic Units compared to tons of transistors needed to implement logic gates, ram etc. needed to do calculus in non analog way. It might actually save energy to calculate a lot of that stuff in analog way.

5. Per points 2 and 4 you get a space ship that is more robust against radiation threat that might cause malfunction of very highly integrated circuits due to high density of transistors.

Please feel free to criticize in the most detailed way possible.

P.S. Do you have time to talk about our Lord and Data Savior magnetic tape?

Re: Why CRT in sci fi deep space ships actualy make sense

#2

Post by theandrewbailey »

Several years ago, I read about Americans capturing Soviet-era jet fighters. They were analyzing it and finding all sorts of deficiencies compared to their own fighters, but noted its vacuum tube electronics were resistant to EMPs.

> Perhaps the most stunning discovery was the fact that most of the MiG-25’s avionics were based on vacuum tubes—not solid state electronics. This was considered woefully outdated for a top-of-the-line military jet in the 1970s, but the vintage system had its advantages. The vacuum tubes were more temperature-tolerant than modern avionics were, which allowed the MiG to fly without weighty environmental controls in the avionics bay. Plus, the tubes allowed for quick and easy maintenance at Russia’s primitive airfields, and the antiquated system would better withstand the circuit-frying power of an electromagnetic pulse created by a nuclear blast.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a38083125...

Re: Why CRT in sci fi deep space ships actualy make sense

#3

Post by eqvinox »

> you solved problem of easy production of electricity

Sure, but you may not have solved the problem of how to get the heat out of your spaceship. Since your only option is radiative heat transfer (no convection/conduction…), you're stuck with really fat radiators. So you really don't want to waste power into heat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_Active_Thermal_Contro...

Re: Why CRT in sci fi deep space ships actualy make sense

#4

Post by kokojumbo »

theandrewbailey wrote: post #2

Several years ago, I read about Americans capturing Soviet-era jet fighters. They were analyzing it and finding all sorts of deficiencies compared to their own fighters, but noted its vacuum tube electronics were resistant to EMPs. > Perhaps the most stunning discovery was the fact that most of the MiG-25’s avionics were based on vacuum tubes—not solid state electronics. This was considered woefully outdated for a to…

Yea, just look at how much redundancy in satellites and space probes we need to operate within the range of Sun's heliosphere. Outer space outside it would be even more killer to current electronics. Even if we switch to silicon carbide (which could possibly still remain harder to manufacture process) stuff it still would be a factor to consider.

Re: Why CRT in sci fi deep space ships actualy make sense

#6

Post by warrenm »

theandrewbailey wrote: post #2

Several years ago, I read about Americans capturing Soviet-era jet fighters. They were analyzing it and finding all sorts of deficiencies compared to their own fighters, but noted its vacuum tube electronics were resistant to EMPs. > Perhaps the most stunning discovery was the fact that most of the MiG-25’s avionics were based on vacuum tubes—not solid state electronics. This was considered woefully outdated for a to…

sounds like the [possibly-apocryphal] store of the invention of red-black trees

during the space race, the Americans threw more computing power at the problem

the Soviets didn't have the computers to use, so they threw math at it

sometimes simplest is bestest!

Re: Why CRT in sci fi deep space ships actualy make sense

#7

Post by warrenm »

kokojumbo wrote: post #4
theandrewbailey wrote: post #2

Several years ago, I read about Americans capturing Soviet-era jet fighters. They were analyzing it and finding all sorts of deficiencies compared to their own fighters, but noted its vacuum tube electronics were resistant to EMPs. > Perhaps the most stunning discovery was the fact that most of the MiG-25’s avionics were based on vacuum tubes—not solid state electronics. This was considered woefully outdated for a to…

Yea, just look at how much redundancy in satellites and space probes we need to operate within the range of Sun's heliosphere. Outer space outside it would be even more killer to current electronics. Even if we switch to silicon carbide (which could possibly still remain harder to manufacture process) stuff it still would be a factor to consider.

No post body was provided.

Re: Why CRT in sci fi deep space ships actualy make sense

#8

Post by Gordonjcp »

kokojumbo wrote: post #4
theandrewbailey wrote: post #2

Several years ago, I read about Americans capturing Soviet-era jet fighters. They were analyzing it and finding all sorts of deficiencies compared to their own fighters, but noted its vacuum tube electronics were resistant to EMPs. > Perhaps the most stunning discovery was the fact that most of the MiG-25’s avionics were based on vacuum tubes—not solid state electronics. This was considered woefully outdated for a to…

Yea, just look at how much redundancy in satellites and space probes we need to operate within the range of Sun's heliosphere. Outer space outside it would be even more killer to current electronics. Even if we switch to silicon carbide (which could possibly still remain harder to manufacture process) stuff it still would be a factor to consider.

> Even if we switch to silicon carbide (which could possibly still remain harder to manufacture process)

In the 1980s I got a copy of the latest Cricklewood Electronics catalogue that had a whole page devoted to these newfangled SiC blue LEDs. Blue! Actually properly blue, too!

They were 40 quid each, and indeed the text box where it gave the price said something like "£40 - yes, really, yes these are one of the most expensive components we have ever stocked".

Re: Why CRT in sci fi deep space ships actualy make sense

#9

Post by rocket_surgeron »

theandrewbailey wrote: post #2

Several years ago, I read about Americans capturing Soviet-era jet fighters. They were analyzing it and finding all sorts of deficiencies compared to their own fighters, but noted its vacuum tube electronics were resistant to EMPs. > Perhaps the most stunning discovery was the fact that most of the MiG-25’s avionics were based on vacuum tubes—not solid state electronics. This was considered woefully outdated for a to…

> Plus, the tubes allowed for quick and easy maintenance at Russia’s primitive airfields,

I don't buy the maintenance angle.

Modern solid-state avionics are swappable LRUs. Like lego, you plug and unplug them. Just as easy as tubes, in fact the exact and precise same. Plus you can drop them and they don't shatter.

Techs aren't out in the field desoldering surface-mount components and swapping capacitors, the are unplugging and plugging modules the same as unplugging and plugging in a vacuum tube.

I also don't buy the EMP angle. The metal that aircraft avionic components are encased in also serves as EMP shielding. Not that that matters, the effects of thermonuclear EMP effects are so poorly understood that anyone claiming to be able to predict them is a liar. An EMP in the upper atmosphere may fry well-shielded components 1 meter away from unshielded components if the unshielded components are disconnected and at a different angle to the blast than the shielded ones, and vice-versa. Every real-world analysis of EMP effects is punctuated by how seemingly random the effects are.

An analysis of the effects of STARFISH PRIME on the streetlights of Honolulu notes how random and unpredictable the outages were, and this is on unshielded long-wire circuits (ideal for soaking up EMP radiation).

Did High Altitude EMP Cause the Hawaiian Streetlight Incident? http://ece-research.unm.edu/summa/notes/SDAN/0031.pdf

Re: Why CRT in sci fi deep space ships actualy make sense

#10

Post by themoonisachees »

Gordonjcp wrote: post #8
kokojumbo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, just look at how much redundancy in satellites and space probes we need to operate within the range of Sun's heliosphere. Outer space outside it would be even more killer to current electronics. Even if we switch to silicon carbide (which could possibly still remain harder to manufacture process) stuff it still would be a factor to consider.

> Even if we switch to silicon carbide (which could possibly still remain harder to manufacture process) In the 1980s I got a copy of the latest Cricklewood Electronics catalogue that had a whole page devoted to these newfangled SiC blue LEDs. Blue! Actually properly blue, too! They were 40 quid each, and indeed the text box where it gave the price said something like "£40 - yes, really, yes these are one of the most…

The inventor of the blue LED came to our school for a talk like 5 years ago. IIRC he won a Nobel prize?
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