I think a big part of the problem here is the perception of a big company trying to externalize costs onto their users. The funny thing is, if you ignore the fact that it's a big company named Microsoft who's using your bandwidth and that it's enabled by default, this is actually a pretty awesome feature that could help a lot of people in a lot of situations. Edit: Clarity
Windows 10 “steals” your bandwidth
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Re: Windows 10 “steals” your bandwidth
#52Can someone do a quick back of the envelope calculation on how much bandwidth this will actually eat up? If it's on the order of tens of megabytes this is a lot of outrage over nothing. You blow more than that loading a few youtube videos. P2P is the future, don't try to fight it...
Re: Windows 10 “steals” your bandwidth
#53So it's about how updates are distributed? Would be interesting but the page seems to be down -> http://sitemeer.com/#lauren.vortex.com/archive/001116.html
While the approach chosen by Microsoft is not necessarily the "cleanest" I still dont fully agree with the article.
She complains about the EU not already hoisting pitchforks for this rather minor issue but at the same time completely ignores that Microsoft already got pitchforked enough by the EU for things Google got easily away with.
But her disclaimer that she was consulting Google might explain that complaint ;).
Re: Windows 10 “steals” your bandwidth
#54I have come to the conclusion that commercial operating system vendors can no longer be trusted. They are destroying computing autonomy of users by tying online accounts into their products. They include built in search tools that leak information to the vendor and, in some cases, "trusted" third parties. And they try to steer users to their own cloud solutions, which store user data unencrypted. Apple, Google, and M…
[1] - https://www.gentoo.org/
Re: Windows 10 “steals” your bandwidth
#55It does seem rather evil to make this opt-out rather than opt-in. Much in the same way that I'm cool with people using my stuff - just have the decency to ask first.
Re: Windows 10 “steals” your bandwidth
#56Regarding all of the issues surrounding Windows 10, could somebody create a little app that lets us turn off the objectionable features? I realize it can all be done in the settings, but an app could include some explanatory info, and also serve as a way of documenting all of the issues in one place.
At the point where you find yourself writing an application whose sole task is to disable intrusive settings in your OS, perhaps you should consider switching to a different OS.
My only misgiving is that I love the touch screen, so I have to look into what kind of touch screen functionality I can get under Linux.
Re: Windows 10 “steals” your bandwidth
#57Regarding all of the issues surrounding Windows 10, could somebody create a little app that lets us turn off the objectionable features? I realize it can all be done in the settings, but an app could include some explanatory info, and also serve as a way of documenting all of the issues in one place.
Or an alternative option that requires less work: A list of the objectionable features and how to turn them off in one place? An app would be quite a lot of work, but a reputable, single bulletin with the info would help greatly. That way I (and others) could rest assured that we didn't miss one or two settings whilst blindly searching.
Re: Windows 10 “steals” your bandwidth
#58Mirror for the ctrl+f folks
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Windows 10's New Feature Steals Your Internet Bandwidth
A couple of days ago I discussed a number of privacy and other concerns with Microsoft's new Windows 10, made available as a free upgrade for many existing MS users:
Windows 10: A Potential Privacy Mess, and Worse: http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/001115.html
The situation has only been getting worse since then. For example, it's been noted that the Win10 setup sequence is rigged to try fool users into switching to an MS browser, irrespective of their browser settings before they started the upgrade:
Mozilla isn’t happy with Microsoft for changing how users change the default web browser in Windows 10: http://microsoft-news.com/mozilla-isnt-happy-with-microsoft-...
Pretty bad. But we have even lower to go, as we've seen that by default, Windows 10 actually steals bandwidth from your ISP connection so that Microsoft can use your computer, and your connection, to send MS updates to their other customers.
Huh? Say what?
Yep. It's a devious little feature called Windows Update Delivery Optimization. It's enabled by default. For Enterprise and Education users, it operates over the local LAN. For ordinary Home type users, Microsoft can send their data update goodies to potentially any PC on the global Internet -- from your PC, over your Internet connection. On your dime.
We could get into the pros and cons of local updates being staged between local machines on a LAN as opposed to the outside Internet.
But as soon as MS decided that it's A-OK for them to use my Internet connection to cut down on their bandwidth costs serving their other customers -- without asking me for my specific permission first -- the situation blows into the red zone immediately.
Microsoft makes the predictable excuses about this high-tech thievery.
There's a way you can turn it off. Yeah, buried down deep in the settings, assuming you even know about it in the first place. MS claims they only use your connection when it's "idle" by their definitions. Thanks a bunch.
Oh yes, and (how generous of them!) Microsoft notes that they won't steal bandwidth this way from "metered" connections.
But here's the catch -- you have to manually indicate that a connection shouldn't be used for MS' update delivery scheme. Otherwise, Microsoft has no way to know if (for example) you're paying by the gigabyte or have a low bandwidth cap.
Above all, the sheer arrogance of Microsoft to enable this bandwidth theft by default is stunning.
I don't care if they want to move 1K or 1gig to their other happy users, I want to damn well be asked permission first!
Obviously, this general category of peer-to-peer data transfer is used on the Net in other contexts, such as torrents for example -- but that's something you do voluntarily, of your own volition. Comcast uses the bandwidth of many Comcast users to turn modems in people's homes into public Wi-Fi access points. This has been highly controversial, but at least Comcast is typically doing it over modems they supplied, and has claimed that they over-provision the connection speeds to take this into account -- and don't apply that public usage against home users' bandwidth caps.
But Microsoft didn't even bother with such rationalizations. They simply said in essence: "Hey, you've got bandwidth, so we're gonna use it however we please unless you tell us differently. Suckers!"
If you're running Windows 10, you may want to terminate this travesty.
The settings you need are buried down in:
START->Settings->Update & Security->Windows Update->Advanced options, under: Choose how updates are delivered.
It's worth noting at this point that if Google had tried a stupid stunt like this, there would likely already be EU commissioners running through the streets of Brussels hoisting pitchforks and flaming torches, all yelling for Google's blood.
For a while there, it was starting to look like there indeed was a new kind of Microsoft coming into view, one that had evolved beyond the hubris that had so long been Microsoft's single most defining characteristic.
As we can see, any such hopes are now ... Gone with the Win10.
--Lauren-- I have consulted to Google, but I am not currently doing so. All opinions expressed here are mine alone.
Re: Windows 10 “steals” your bandwidth
#59Let me understand this better: they centralized skype and decentralized software updates? Wow.
As I understand it, they centralized Skype because mobile phones couldn't be supernodes. (Not defending it, just explaining it.)
Re: Windows 10 “steals” your bandwidth
#60I have come to the conclusion that commercial operating system vendors can no longer be trusted. They are destroying computing autonomy of users by tying online accounts into their products. They include built in search tools that leak information to the vendor and, in some cases, "trusted" third parties. And they try to steer users to their own cloud solutions, which store user data unencrypted. Apple, Google, and M…