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Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

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Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#321

Post by voidz »

jqm wrote: post #295
enraged_camel wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of Americans simply do not have that choice. They can't go to their boss and say, "hey boss, I want to take a 10% pay cut and get an extra 2 weeks off." American work culture simply doesn't allow that.

Any smart boss with decision making power should instantly give workers an additional 2 weeks off for a 10% pay cut. (Assuming the workers work more than 20 weeks a year and their duties can be taken up by someone else). It's pure profit at that point. That aside... there is always a choice. Don't ever think otherwise. You don't have to stay there. You don't have to drive a nice car. Always a choice. It's just a matt…

It's not profit, it's saving money. But also less production. You get my point.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#322

Post by bdcravens »

Havoc wrote: post #134
bdcravens wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As disingenuous as comparing a small country to the US as a whole.

>As disingenuous as comparing a small country to the US as a whole. Why? Countries seem to scale pretty well. A social structure that works well in one city can work well in 200 cities.

We regularly see startups do a belly flop when they scale from 5 employees to 50, yet somehow what works for a country 1/5 the population and 1/10 the size of California could apply to all 50 states?

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#323

Post by atmosx »

lordnacho wrote: post #318
atmosx wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Switzerland#Federa... http://www.lawyersswitzerland.com/dividend-tax-in-switzerlan... ps. Is there any change you're tax-evading? :-) j/k probably to get taxed at 35% you need to be pass a specific amount or something (not sure though).

It says it can be deducted in full. That's not really a tax now, is it?

Depends on the specifics, I don't know how easily and under what circumstances you get the refund. But you have a point there, sure.

On the other hand, their tax system seems to work wonders and gives you the impression that there is a strong justice estate.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#324

Post by yodsanklai »

jqm wrote: post #273
jqm wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More money would make me happier. I'd give up a few Saturdays for it. One day a week is enough rest. Besides, few pleasures compare to productively working.

I'm a little surprised by the negative reaction. You people don't derive pleasure from working... from the process of building things, from molding reality? I damn sure do. But then again... I'm an American.

It's not contradictory at all. One can derive pleasure from working, and still enjoy their free time. The good thing about free time is that you can use it to build things if that's what you want.

And don't forget that most people don't have the luxury of an enjoyable job.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#325

Post by cpach »

[deleted] wrote: post #296
jqm wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a little surprised by the negative reaction. You people don't derive pleasure from working... from the process of building things, from molding reality? I damn sure do. But then again... I'm an American.

[deleted]

Please don’t make personal attacks here on HN.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#326

Post by tracker1 »

dubcanada wrote: post #202
adventured wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact America does have one of the highest standards of living. It also has one of the highest median incomes, and among the highest disposable incomes. OECD better life index: http://i.imgur.com/ekhWXeG.png Maternity leave is common in America. You are free to choose your job based on the benefits you desire, including vacation time and maternity leave. Switzerland and Germany to name two, are famous for not havin…

Maternity leave in America is basically unpaid vacation. In most countries you get paid maternity leave. Vacation time is also the lowest (2 weeks) compared to Europe which on average has 4 weeks of vacation time. Where did you get your information about healthcare from? Very affordable healthcare in America? Seriously, what are you smoking?

For a lot of people healthcare would be a huge expense... I'm actually pretty happy about "Obamacare" even though I don't agree with the methods... I actually have better healthcare out of pocket today, for less money per month than my last job offered. I was surprised, as I'm big, and diabetic so the last time I looked at out of pocket it was a couple thousand a month. That said, I think there could have been better ways to do it, and the number of exceptions was too vast imho.

As for vacation, I'm feeling it... I've spent most of my career doing contract/hourly work, and for several years the only time I really had off was both unpaid and between jobs with half the time spent interviewing. The past three years I've forced myself to take a couple weeks off over the year, and it's a world of difference... Still unpaid, but worth it.

If I come across a company that gives me the freedom as an employee that I've had as a contractor, I'd be happy to be there. I've done far better in positions where I'm able to get work done, instead of minutia and meetings all the time. Where quality of output is worth more than the number of Jira tickets closed. Unfortunately, that hasn't been the majority of my work experience.

Who knows how things will work out in the end... at least it's not like the first .com bust.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#327

Post by Daishiman »

adventured wrote: post #162
fab13n wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading this as a European, it's fun and telling that you focused on salary differences, whereas what mattered to me were the other quality-of-life elements (I assume you're living in the US). To sum up, what matters to me, in what she described, were the consequences of the belief that one shouldn't be ashamed of having a life outside of work, and needing some time and peace of mind to actually enjoy it. More money…

In America you can choose your job based on how you want to live. You can pursue your life and goals based on what you want out of it. Is that not true in Switzerland? I think you've bought into little more than propaganda. Americans take off weekends. And how do you judge 330 million people when it comes to burn-out, given the vast differences among them all?

BS. I have seen far fewer Americans in a position where they can take the Friday afternoons off like a lot of Europeans can. Or extended paternity leaves. Or sabbaticals.

I have yet to see a software company in the US with the amount of time off as European companies despite the fact that most of the people I know in the US would trade salary for time off.

It's simply a race to the bottom; with no incentive for employers to reduce the number of working hours (because there are no laws for it, because white collar employees are exempt from overtime, because Americans stupidly believe that they can't achieve work improvements through collective bargaining), it is obvious that they will attempt to squeeze as much work out of employees up to, but not beyond, the point of futility.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#328

Post by Daishiman »

jqm wrote: post #273
jqm wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More money would make me happier. I'd give up a few Saturdays for it. One day a week is enough rest. Besides, few pleasures compare to productively working.

I'm a little surprised by the negative reaction. You people don't derive pleasure from working... from the process of building things, from molding reality? I damn sure do. But then again... I'm an American.

Sure, I derive pleasure from work. But I don't work for free, and I would rather be doing a lot of other things that are more enjoyable, but less profitable, than working.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#330

Post by toomuchtodo »

jqm wrote: post #255
EliRivers wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

few pleasures compare to productively working There is something seriously wrong here. Many, many pleasures in life are as pleasurable, or more pleasurable, than productively working. For many people, productively working is actually not pleasurable.

Yes... there is something seriously wrong here. If you don't enjoy your work, quit! I work because I love it. The money is a nice side benefit.

Most of American workers don't have that choice. The tech world is an echo chamber, and it's do well to realize we are a privileged few who can dicta to our compensation (for now).
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