Isn't fuzziness a feature of most legal codes? Treating the law like an absolute immutable contract sounds anathema to a healthy judicial system. I'm not sure why some technologists have such a fascination with legalism. I'm not against the idea of digital government and having laws be distributed under a free documentation license with the ability for citizens to discuss and amend laws. A standard version control an…
What is Ethereum?
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Re: What is Ethereum?
#72Re: What is Ethereum?
#73"You might even imagine a nation defined not by geography but by the rules and benefits of citizenship. Imagine that people of the future could opt-in to the virtual nation that suits them best." . I wonder if we will ever get there . But its eye opening just to think about it.
I am sure I have brought it up here before, but I will again. Here it goes. My father is an intellectual property attorney. Among colorful clients was a very active entrepeneur/inventor. One year he insisted the future was a digital nation. You see how people drool or get excited even with 1/4-of-the-way-there e-Estonia system? He was talking about this years ago, when I was finishing high school and starting college…
Re: What is Ethereum?
#74I think the whole digital currency thing muddies the waters. People, myself included, hear the word currency and think of something we earn and spend, but then you hear about all the other uses of Ethereum and wonder what that has to do with money.
What I've just realised by reading this article is that contracts are what Ethereum is all about, the currency aspect is just one of the many use cases. Laws are another example of a contract. The base class is contracts, everything else is a subclass on top of that.
Re: What is Ethereum?
#75Perhaps I'm wrong, but the simplest explanation of Ethereum appears to be that it's a way of specifying and sharing contracts. I think the whole digital currency thing muddies the waters. People, myself included, hear the word currency and think of something we earn and spend, but then you hear about all the other uses of Ethereum and wonder what that has to do with money. What I've just realised by reading this arti…
(edit: for the sake of pedantry, assume I did indeed mean contract)
Re: What is Ethereum?
#76Perhaps I'm wrong, but the simplest explanation of Ethereum appears to be that it's a way of specifying and sharing contracts. I think the whole digital currency thing muddies the waters. People, myself included, hear the word currency and think of something we earn and spend, but then you hear about all the other uses of Ethereum and wonder what that has to do with money. What I've just realised by reading this arti…
What's a contract? (Playing devil's advocate a little) (edit: for the sake of pedantry, assume I did indeed mean contract)
Re: What is Ethereum?
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ethereum is a currency and enforcement system built for computers. Initially, ambiguity isn't a feature because it's meant for contracts and things which are meant to be precise. Room for ambiguity in ethereum can be added later, once computers are intelligent enough to negotiate ambiguity. The main feature of this system is removing the need for enforcement. Think about how much goes into maintaining police, bounty…
You misunderstand why contract enforcement leads to violence. In the real world, contracts among equals are always fungable and rarely enforced with violence. It is different when the contracts are between powerful and the not so powerful. Violence propagates down. Ethereum, by automating contract enforcement is going to end up being a tool for the powerful against the weak. A tool which brings the cost of lowering c…
I'm not sure exactly how you're interpreting contract enforcement leading to violence, so I'll try to explain a little more. Two people make a financial agreement, hire lawyers, and depend on a powerful police force and and penal system to enforce the terms of their contract. This increases the need for armed police, prisons, etc. As more people and institutions are given the right to enact violence to enforce these contracts, people become more desensitized to violence and arrest and more opportunities for abuse present themselves. Abstracting this enforcement into software also distances the enforcement from the culture and removes some of the negative psychological effects on people of carrying out that enforcement.
That's on the smaller scale. On the larger scale, nations feel pressure into increasingly more arms races to keep themselves on an even level. Abstracting enforcement of agreements into software can have the same effect as the introduction of diplomacy into international trade. While it didn't eliminate war, it offered an alternative to straight-out aggression between tribes. Groups that used to stay to themselves and interact with each other only on disputed borders were able to cooperate on a much higher level by establishing representatives inside each others borders.
A smart contract system is a neutral, diplomatic ground for the Internet. Today, the Internet resembles in many ways the world before diplomacy. There is a persistent, escalating cyber-war between nations. People can move in between nations, but there's no real neutral territory that every nation would consider fair. By having a mutually-agreed and verifiably trustworthy software platform to enact contracts, there can be opportunities for new types of deals that are more mutually beneficial.
Will this suddenly eliminate war and hostility? Of course not. Neither did diplomacy. But almost nobody thinks we should go back to a world without any diplomacy, and once we have neutral and fair systems to conduct electronic business, few will want to give it up.
Re: What is Ethereum?
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's a contract? (Playing devil's advocate a little) (edit: for the sake of pedantry, assume I did indeed mean contract)
Assuming you meant contract, I'd say it was a formal agreement between two or more parties. Will that do?
I actually have a decent understanding of what's involved regarding Ethereum, but assume for a moment that I don't.
Statements like "a formal agreement between two or more parties" are of little use to someone starting from ground zero.
Re: What is Ethereum?
#79The example contract is very vague and seemingly pointless. The stated problem is 'if the buyer pays before 1st April, then they own the website'. Fair enough, but usually you'd just deal with this without any kind of contract in place. We don't need contracts for simple cases of 'buyer pays money, gets purchase.' A contract would only be interesting in the example if it was structured as an option: The buyer has pro…
The example is pseudo-code and assumes a future with smart-property domain registrars. A better example might have been a smart contract trust which is 100% doable today. There are other examples under the Samples menu at etherscripter.com. Also see ethereum.org.
Exactly. That's the problem. There has to be a much larger infrastructure which handles ownership of real-world objects for this to be useful. There are already smart-property domain registrars. MERS [1] and DTC [2] already do that, for mortgages and stocks respectively. But they don't need Etherium.
[1] https://www.mersinc.org/ [2] http://www.dtcc.com/about/businesses-and-subsidiaries/dtc.as...
Re: What is Ethereum?
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
Assuming you meant contract, I'd say it was a formal agreement between two or more parties. Will that do?
Not really, no. I actually have a decent understanding of what's involved regarding Ethereum, but assume for a moment that I don't. Statements like "a formal agreement between two or more parties" are of little use to someone starting from ground zero.
Before I try, let's explore how Ethereum is described by those who develop it. The home page seems as good a place as any.
Here's what the first paragraph on the homepage describes Ethereum as...
"Ethereum is a decentralized platform that runs smart contracts: applications that run exactly as programmed without any possibility of downtime, censorship, fraud or third party interference."
So even the Ethereum developers describe the core use as contracts. It doesn't strike me as a controversial idea.
How would you describe Ethereum?