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Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

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Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#121

Post by JamesBarney »

blfr wrote: post #41

"Driving Bentleys ruined me for BMWs and their poor make quality" Switzerland is one of... three maybe (Luxemburg, Norway) countries with higher standard of living than the US. Not even Switzerland's neighbours (Italy, France, Germany) with people coming from the same populations can reproduce it. All these great states are tiny (8M people) outliers. There are more people enjoying work-life balance in America than al…

And they all are known as tax havens except for Norway which has half a million dollars of oil reserves per citizen :).

But I do think the article is right in pointing out a lack of options in the U.S. if you want to live a lifestyle that doesn't center around work. I love writing software but 40 hours a week + 5 hours of commute + 6 hours of software practice + recovery time seems to me to not leave enough time for enjoying the parts of life that don't involve compiling.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#122

Post by digi_owl »

fit2rule wrote: post #87
cjsthompson wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France and Germany have a higher standard of living than the U.S. In fact except Greece, Italy and Spain all European countries have a higher standard of living than the U.S.. Face it you are the third world compared to Europe. Ooooh, those poor little jingoistic feewings are butthurt... :D

There are probably 10 countries whose average citizens enjoy a standard of living higher than your average American.

The tricky thing about averages is that a few high numbers can slew the average...

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#123

Post by alkonaut »

ohsnap wrote: post #110

Switzerland is the world's most successful parasite. So it's hard to recreate their 'success' unless you have lots of host countries to feed from https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Switzerland:_A_parasite_feeding_o...

The nordic countries have similar quality of life. Granted, a bit less purchasing power and much higher taxes, but even better work/life deal (longer holidays, more parental leave) etc. And apart from norway it's not oil. And none is a parasite I think.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#124

Post by alkonaut »

sampo wrote: post #111
Dylan16807 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So you are free to spend the lunch hour however, also visiting your home and children. Sure, if my job is very close to my house. Otherwise it's an hour spent neither working nor at home.

> Sure, if my job is very close to my house. I'd guess that is indeed quite common in Switzerland. So having a 1 hour lunch break in the middle of the day makes sense for them, but would not make sense in the US, where much longer commutes are the norm.

The commutes are just the other side of the same coin: The way the US treats it's work/life balance has had deeper consequences. If you aren't expected to leave the kids to school and also have dinner with them at 5pm, then you might just as well work a long day. And since you are working late anyway, you could just as well have a longer commute. On a weekday, work is expected to be a full day. Not just half the day. The 2yo will be asleep when you come home anyway. So imho the sprawling city is born from not just the car culture, also the work/life balance culture.

If you are supposed to leave kids at 8 and pick them up at 4 then obviously a 1h commute isn't really doable. Public transit and compact cities follow naturally from that.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#125

Post by digi_owl »

rsync wrote: post #13

In Europe, many, many people were essentially slaves. They were property of a small class of landed gentry who ruled over them with, at best, patriarchal indifference and at worst homicidal, spiteful authoritarianism. They were peasants. Then, over the course of about 200 years, some of these gentry got their heads chopped off or were stripped of their papal lands or were rounded up and put in front of a firing squad…

> (the money has to come from somewhere, after all) And where did they get it in the first place? When it comes to money it is effectively turtles all the damn way down.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#126

Post by brandonmenc »

cjsthompson wrote: post #61
blfr wrote: post #41

"Driving Bentleys ruined me for BMWs and their poor make quality" Switzerland is one of... three maybe (Luxemburg, Norway) countries with higher standard of living than the US. Not even Switzerland's neighbours (Italy, France, Germany) with people coming from the same populations can reproduce it. All these great states are tiny (8M people) outliers. There are more people enjoying work-life balance in America than al…

France and Germany have a higher standard of living than the U.S. In fact except Greece, Italy and Spain all European countries have a higher standard of living than the U.S.. Face it you are the third world compared to Europe. Ooooh, those poor little jingoistic feewings are butthurt... :D

> Face it you are the third world compared to Europe. Ooooh, those poor little jingoistic feewings are butthurt

You seem to not know the actual definitions of "third world" and "jingoism."

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#127

Post by maus42 »

rsync wrote: post #65
gpcz wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there isn't already an intricate system of landed class and privilege, who are "these folks over here" that give the money for the welfare and benefits?

The answer is "all of us", or at least in the very level and equal society that existed post-WW2. As outcomes become less equal, a smaller and smaller proportion of individuals foot that bill. We should expect that as that intensifies, some of those folks are going to look around and start asking where their hereditary and class privileges are.

Let me introduce to Swedish progressive income taxation and VAT percent. Folkshemmet certainly isn't paid by landed gentry.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#128

Post by digi_owl »

rhino369 wrote: post #64
airza wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what? America had an actual slave class. Also indentured servants.

But the freed slaves were a disenfranchised minority and only shaped culture a little bit. When slaves were still in bondage, the European immigrants could go west for free and cheap land. The cheap land and lack of landed gentry created a culture that values entrepreneurship. Even today America LOVES rags to riches stories. You can also see that the black community today is considerably more liberal than the general…

Ah yes, the American (pipe) dream...

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#129

Post by WalterSear »

Sfi81 wrote: post #113
blfr wrote: post #41

"Driving Bentleys ruined me for BMWs and their poor make quality" Switzerland is one of... three maybe (Luxemburg, Norway) countries with higher standard of living than the US. Not even Switzerland's neighbours (Italy, France, Germany) with people coming from the same populations can reproduce it. All these great states are tiny (8M people) outliers. There are more people enjoying work-life balance in America than al…

Well you have to remember that the Swiss have both better income sources (assisting the world's wealthy & many corporations evade/optimize taxes for instance) and don't have military expenses and such due to neutrality. While many problems of the US are of its own creation due to either ideology or wealth dominating politics (healthcare & education spring to mind), it is quite unfair to compare what the Swiss governm…

On the contrary, IMHO, it is totally fair.

The roots of their respective prosperity and poverty come from the long-term effects of their respective ideologies. The US choses to let corporations evade taxes, and the US choses to project military might to pursue private corporate aims.

Just because a behaviour and culture is endemic and has occurred for generations now, that doesn't make it written in stone.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#130

Post by chimeracoder »

JamesBarney wrote: post #121
blfr wrote: post #41

"Driving Bentleys ruined me for BMWs and their poor make quality" Switzerland is one of... three maybe (Luxemburg, Norway) countries with higher standard of living than the US. Not even Switzerland's neighbours (Italy, France, Germany) with people coming from the same populations can reproduce it. All these great states are tiny (8M people) outliers. There are more people enjoying work-life balance in America than al…

And they all are known as tax havens except for Norway which has half a million dollars of oil reserves per citizen :). But I do think the article is right in pointing out a lack of options in the U.S. if you want to live a lifestyle that doesn't center around work. I love writing software but 40 hours a week + 5 hours of commute + 6 hours of software practice + recovery time seems to me to not leave enough time for…

> And they all are known as tax havens except for Norway which has half a million dollars of oil reserves per citizen :).

> But I do think the article is right in pointing out a lack of options in the U.S. if you want to live a lifestyle that doesn't center around work.

This is the "option" of being both a very small and very rich state, which is simply not feasible.

To put this into perspective, Norway is just over half the population of New York City. If New York City had half a million dollars of oil reserves per citizen (as you point out) and started to mint its own currency, and established immigration and trade barriers[0], yes, we would see a massive quality-of-life improvement compared to the status quo.

But that's simply not an option, because (a) we can't produce massive oil riches out of thin air, and (b) NYC is not a sovereign state.

[0] Norway is not part of the EU, but even if it were, EU member states are able to restrict trade and immigration within themselves to a far greater degree than a city or even state in the US can.

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