A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared • Hacker News Board

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#61

Post by _yosefk » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 7:18 PM UTC

gohrt wrote: post #43

apsec112 wrote: post #29

Talking about "cost of living" in a place like Seattle, as if it were an ordinary economic issue, masks the real problem, which is that liberal US cities have made it very difficult to construct new housing. If a million families want to live in a city, and the city only allows half a million houses to be built, then a lot of people are going to be forced out. It's not a question of economics, it's a simple question…

There's no need to toss "liberal" in there. Dense cities tend to have rent-control, and Dense cities tend to have people with policies generally referred to as "liberal" (to the extent that "liberal" means anything. But NIMBYism and status-quoism is not just a liberal issue, and "not changing the neighborhood" is right in line with the definition of "conservative", which means a preference for how things already are…

Dictionary definitions of words are usually not very close to the use of these words in political contexts.

Regardless of dictionary definitions, if we agree that building restrictions are a bad policy, it is a valid and IMO interesting empirical question whether most people supporting it self-identify as liberal, conservative or something else. (I honestly don't think I could guess the answer.)

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#62

Post by kdamken » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 7:18 PM UTC

Something I hadn't seen discussed with much clarity is what happened to the employees who were already making 70k+? If I was working there making that much, would I see a similar percent increase? If not, then I'd be pretty angry about the situation and would probably leave as well.

I think part of it is that what you get paid is mostly based on your experience and skill set, as well as what you bring to the company. Let's compare a customer service rep and a web developer. They're both important parts of the company, but one has a highly specialized skill set that takes a while to develop, while the other person answers the phones. The developer has taken the time to invest in themselves professionally so that they could be a higher earner. The customer service rep needs about a week of training. To put them on the same pay grade seems unfair and illogical.

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#63

Post by kdamken » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 7:18 PM UTC

Something I hadn't seen discussed with much clarity is what happened to the employees who were already making 70k+? If I was working there making that much, would I see a similar percent increase? If not, then I'd be pretty angry about the situation and would probably leave as well.

I think part of it is that what you get paid is mostly based on your experience and skill set, as well as what you bring to the company. Let's compare a customer service rep and a web developer. They're both important parts of the company, but one has a highly specialized skill set that takes a while to develop, while the other person answers the phones. The developer has taken the time to invest in themselves professionally so that they could be a higher earner. The customer service rep needs about a week of training. To put them on the same pay grade seems unfair and illogical.

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#64

Post by walshemj » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 7:19 PM UTC

infamouscow wrote: post #24

dopamean wrote: post #2

Am I crazy for thinking it seems naive to not anticipate that current employees may not take kindly to people who earn half as much as them getting bumped up to their salaries?

If it bothers you that your peers are going to have more financial security, then you're a self-centered asshole.

Absolutely some of the negative letters are worse human beings than that Minnesota dentist.

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#65

Post by jasonlotito » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 7:19 PM UTC

oh_sigh wrote: post #42

jameshush wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know what you're saying, but I've never understood this logic personally. How does someone else earning more money hurt you? It's not like a person doing better than you is taking your money.

Tons of studies show that it is not absolute pay, but pay relative to your coworkers which influences your feelings about fairness and your position in the company. Like it or not, that's how it is. Do you not understand the logic of people who feel that way, or do you simply not believe in it yourself? If you were getting paid $35k/year to do the same job as everyone else who was getting paid $115k/year, would you f…

So what you are really saying is the problem is people knowing other people's salaries? Because unless I'm the exception, the norm is not knowing what people are getting paid.

So, what you are really asking is: If you were getting paid $115k/year to do a job where $115k/year was the normal competitive salary in your area, would you feel that it was somewhat unfair?

I ask this because I wonder what would have happened if he'd not said anything.

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#66

Post by a3voices » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 7:20 PM UTC

swyman wrote: post #56

a3voices wrote: post #50

I don't see why the CEO feels the need to fix problems with capitalism instead of just doing what's best for the company.

Some people care about things other than what's immediately in front of their faces on a day-to-day basis

True but paying people more than necessary in a lot of ways contradicts his role as CEO.

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#67

Post by andrewvc » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 7:20 PM UTC

sologoub wrote: post #51

One scenario this article doesn't address is a situation where an employee who previously earned a lot less comes to rely on the higher salary and adjusts his/her expenses accordingly, but then for whatever reason ends up having to look for another job, which is unlikely to pay nearly as much. I'm guessing that while the situation would be extremely unfortunate, the overall higher income should still help cushion the…

I'm not sure if you realize that the poor hold on to a ton of debt in this country, and a large part of it is their inability to dig themselves out of the holes they're in.

Now, it is true that financial literacy is tends to be low among those who make little, but it is also the case that many people who are financially literate, but poor, just can't dig themselves out of debt. Medical expenses, for instance, are one of the leading costs of bankruptcy in this country.

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#68

Post by sctb » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 7:20 PM UTC

jwise0 wrote: post #3

The title from the article is somewhat less clickbait: "A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared"

Thanks, we updated the submission title.

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#69

Post by Kalium » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 7:21 PM UTC

gohrt wrote: post #43

apsec112 wrote: post #29

Talking about "cost of living" in a place like Seattle, as if it were an ordinary economic issue, masks the real problem, which is that liberal US cities have made it very difficult to construct new housing. If a million families want to live in a city, and the city only allows half a million houses to be built, then a lot of people are going to be forced out. It's not a question of economics, it's a simple question…

There's no need to toss "liberal" in there. Dense cities tend to have rent-control, and Dense cities tend to have people with policies generally referred to as "liberal" (to the extent that "liberal" means anything. But NIMBYism and status-quoism is not just a liberal issue, and "not changing the neighborhood" is right in line with the definition of "conservative", which means a preference for how things already are…

Liberal here.

Yeah, there really is a need to toss "liberal" in there. More liberal dense cities seem to have this problem much worse than dense less-liberal cities. Qualifier: American cities.

Some of it tends to be due to liberal reflexes (participatory democracy at all levels, favoring small local groups of activists over people who stand to profit, etc.) that backfire writ large. Add in a distrust of markets, and you have a recipe for disaster. San Francisco is a great example.

Re: A Company Copes With Backlash Against the Raise That Roared

#70

Post by fokov » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 7:21 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #39

Ensorceled wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As somebody who often makes more than my peers because I work harder and longer hours, I understand this logic perfectly. In some respects they ARE taking my money ... the company now has less money to distribute based upon merit. Also, I would immediately become a 9-5 employee and enjoy my weekends like my now equally paid peers.

So some people would get paid more, and you'd switch to a more balanced lifestyle? I'm struggling to see the downsides :)

It means all of the previous sacrifices the good employees made were for nothing in the eyes of management. Therefore, there is no reason to work hard at all. It is better to go leave for a competitor that knows how to treat their hard working employees.