What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea • Hacker News Board

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#121

Post by rosser » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:43 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #100

timiblossom wrote: post #33

The building to convert reef to island is one of the first steps to claim the entire Southeast-Asia sea by China. It will then have the self-declared ownership right to block all sea/air traffics through this region and bully other neighboring countries. Besides having a huge oil/gas reserve and fishes, in term of economic impact, this sea is as important as or more than Panama Canal or Suez Canal. A country with the…

[deleted]

In theory, China could build islands across the pacific and setup bases and missiles along the US west coast.

The average depth of the Pacific Ocean is over 14,000 ft (almost exactly 4.3 km).

That's a lot of dredging.

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#122

Post by JupiterMoon » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:44 PM UTC

zorked wrote: post #115

yc1010 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If China block ships from the area it wont be too hard to block their ships from Panama and Suez canals and deny access to Americas Watch their economy crumble if they are prevented from selling this cheap knacks to the rest of the world. It be a stupid move and the Chinese are far from stupid unlike the the Russians who are doing their best to tick every checkbox on a rogue criminal state chalkboard

Why would Panama or Egypt want to block China?

I think that the other guys point is that the US has enough influence in both these countries to cause them to block their canals to Chinese trade.

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#123

Post by AnimalMuppet » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:45 PM UTC

temuze wrote: post #50

twothamendment wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it matter where nuclear weapons are? Can China or the US deliver one anywhere in the world?

With nuclear subs, it really doesn't matter.

With ICBMs with 12,000 mile range, it doesn't either.

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#124

Post by mafribe » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:47 PM UTC

dak1 wrote: post #28

mafribe wrote: post #21

I wonder to what extend the real issue is Taiwan. After all China has a (often strongly expressed) territorial claim to Taiwan (and vice versa, but that is not as well-known). If China were to cede alleged land-rights w.r.t. to these islands, it might set a precedent that Taiwan might try to exploit. Maybe China wants to avoid this situation.

I think they're both related to upholding territorial claims, which the PRC says is a "core interest" (ie, something they're willing to go to war over), but I don't think it's viewed as a direct domino effect. The more direct link is potentially to the CCP's claim to legitimacy as the government of China. If they can't defend China's "historic" claims to territory then they could lose legitimacy in the eyes of an inc…

I agree, but it would be much easier to sell giving up on the Spratly Islands to the Chinese population than accepting Taiwan as a sovereign state. Indeed I would not be too surprised if China did the former. The ability to do so gives China a lot of leverage in negotiations with regional or international competitors, just like the US uses the unresolved Taiwan situation as a lever in negotiations with China.

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#125

Post by jameshart » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:52 PM UTC

apaprocki wrote: post #76

rcavezza wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Besides that, artificial land is nothing new Also - hitting closer to home for me is that a good chunk of Boston is on top of man made land. The entire "Back Bay" area (which is what most people consider downtown Boston) was originally underwater.

A large portion of lower Manhattan is also landfill -- the same portion that recently flooded during Hurricane Sandy.

Neither of which allow the US to make 200 mile exclusive economic zone claims under the UN convention on the law of the sea that they otherwise wouldn't be able to make, so they're hardly relevant to the China case.

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#126

Post by jckt » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:53 PM UTC

JupiterMoon wrote: post #122

zorked wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would Panama or Egypt want to block China?

I think that the other guys point is that the US has enough influence in both these countries to cause them to block their canals to Chinese trade.

Would that not be against the interests of the US neoliberal elite, who in turn have enormous influence on the USG?

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#127

Post by wonnage » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:53 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #68

zaczac wrote: post #66

What U.S. had been done with Hawaii? Entire mexico gulf? starting Gulf War for owning red sea? And Pacific Ocean becomes U.S. domestic lake? who brought up the world tension?

Whataboutism. "Don't look at what we're doing over here, look at these other people over there." It's equivalent to a direct admission that what China is doing is wrong and you know it. Presumably if you could actualy defend China's actions, you do so instead of changing the subject.

Your response is implicitly an acknowledgment and approval of previous US actions as well... I don't think we can deny that these things happened. The West has the privilege of saying it happened in the 1800s and brushing it under the carpet.

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#128

Post by tellthetruth » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:58 PM UTC

curiousjorge wrote: post #77

The question is, is President Xi willing to risk military conflict to enforce whatever new lines he draws on the map? I don't think he is. As we saw the air zone China drew that overlapped Korea, Japan and Taiwan, it was promptly ignored by all countries and when the US stealth bombers were flying China was silent . An actual combat that results in Chinese loss would be detrimental to the continuity of Xi's party and…

"...it was promptly ignored by all countries and when the US stealth bombers were flying China was silent."

News for you:

http://news.yahoo.com/u-airlines-advised-china-flight-plans-...

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#129

Post by qiqing » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 6:05 PM UTC

sharetea wrote: post #71

timiblossom wrote: post #33

The building to convert reef to island is one of the first steps to claim the entire Southeast-Asia sea by China. It will then have the self-declared ownership right to block all sea/air traffics through this region and bully other neighboring countries. Besides having a huge oil/gas reserve and fishes, in term of economic impact, this sea is as important as or more than Panama Canal or Suez Canal. A country with the…

It really sounds like the fascist/autocratic states in Asia (Russia/China) with its economy failing, is slowly resorting to territorial aggression against neighboring countries in order to claim more resources. With Russia bumping against all of europe, and China bumping against Japan/Korea/Taiwan/Vietnam/Malaysia/Indonesia/Phillipines, this is boding ill for global stability.

Why is it moral for the U.S. and U.K. to build bases on random little islands in Asia, but not China and other Asian countries?

Edit: Clarification, since so many of the smaller uninhabited islands have been claimed by the UK, US, and other Western nations, how is it wrong to build some uninhabited islands of your own?

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#130

Post by analyst74 » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 6:07 PM UTC

orf wrote: post #26

jacquesm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Spratly islands are in the middle of one of the most important sea corridors. Ultimately, even nationalism is about money, after all which war ever in the history of man did not start as a dispute over resources or territory?

Ones involving love, religion or ideology? Blanket statements like that never hold water.

religion and ideology are just tools to unite people, once you unite a bunch people behind a common cause, then you go take stuff from other people, or at least prevent your stuff from being taken.