What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea • Hacker News Board

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#101

Post by dm2 » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:24 PM UTC

curiousjorge wrote: post #77

The question is, is President Xi willing to risk military conflict to enforce whatever new lines he draws on the map? I don't think he is. As we saw the air zone China drew that overlapped Korea, Japan and Taiwan, it was promptly ignored by all countries and when the US stealth bombers were flying China was silent . An actual combat that results in Chinese loss would be detrimental to the continuity of Xi's party and…

China does have 2.3 million active troops and 700 million humans who would be able to serve if needed.

They are considered the 3rd most powerful military.

What is the risk?

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#102

Post by rwhitman » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:26 PM UTC

logfromblammo wrote: post #17

It all comes down to the international laws of the sea. Planting your flag on a 1m wide rock above the high tide line enables an exclusive zone with radius 12 NM for excluding all foreign vessels, a radius of 24 NM for enforcement of your laws, and one with radius 200 NM for exclusive economic activities, like oil drilling, undersea mining, and fishing. It's a resource grab. China wants the fish and the seafloor. Wha…

I agree, it goes against the best interest of any of these countries to risk a military clash with China over it building infrastructure on some unoccupied patches of sand in the middle of the sea.

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#103

Post by AnimalMuppet » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:26 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #67

smcl wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My word the southern reaches of the Chinese claim are extremely grabby! Is this just similar to haggling in a bazaar for an item listed at $30, which you personally value at $20 so you open with a lowballed offer of $10?

You're being generous. China is annexing territory that belongs to Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, and the Philippines. The same thing that Russia is doing in Ukraine. It's an act of war, the issue is that the world is very afraid of China (both militarily and economically).

No, it's a territorial claim - so far. It's not yet an act of war. Trying to enforce the claim will be an act of war.

Building the islands... well, everybody else who claims that area also seems to be building there. That could, arguably, be considered an act of war, but so far everybody's doing it and we do not yet have a war.

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#104

Post by georgeecollins » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:27 PM UTC

China is very smart to pursue this strategy. The US is committed to fleet carriers and expensive aircraft, while the Chinese focus on island bases and balistic missiles. The US is hampered by the organizational inertia that keeps us poring resources into systems that worked in WW2 or the Cold War.

In that sense the failurs of the F-35 are kind of a blessing for the US Navy. It forces them to think about drones. If there is a future for surface ships it is probably as missile platforms or as some sort of drone platform, not aircraft carriers.

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#105

Post by AnimalMuppet » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:28 PM UTC

timiblossom wrote: post #33

The building to convert reef to island is one of the first steps to claim the entire Southeast-Asia sea by China. It will then have the self-declared ownership right to block all sea/air traffics through this region and bully other neighboring countries. Besides having a huge oil/gas reserve and fishes, in term of economic impact, this sea is as important as or more than Panama Canal or Suez Canal. A country with the…

> It will then have the self-declared ownership right to block all sea/air traffics through this region and bully other neighboring countries.

It already has the self-declared ownership right. The point is, it will have the infrastructure to carry it out.

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#106

Post by toolsadmin » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:28 PM UTC

Sounds to me like typical MSM bait to incite people in Burgerland to hate and get defensive against China. China has been improving by leaps and bounds, they've made mistakes - sure, but they're doing great. No idiotic pseudo-religious-moral limitations on biotechonology will help the Chinese secure their place at its forefront.

In the absence of a large carrier force the Chinese absolutely need the reefs as the first line of defense against encroachment by US + Co (Japan and Taiwan + minor players) interests. You're seeing now what a nation where most people chose science, engineering and math can accomplish.

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#107

Post by tellthetruth » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:28 PM UTC

shernan111 wrote: post #49

How come the UN is not stopping this stupidity? Their 9 dash nine rule is so stupid.

The europeans lay claim to the entire "America" continent. Is that stupid too? Oops I guess no. It's called Exception Handling.

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#108

Post by georgeecollins » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:31 PM UTC

dm2 wrote: post #101

curiousjorge wrote: post #77

The question is, is President Xi willing to risk military conflict to enforce whatever new lines he draws on the map? I don't think he is. As we saw the air zone China drew that overlapped Korea, Japan and Taiwan, it was promptly ignored by all countries and when the US stealth bombers were flying China was silent . An actual combat that results in Chinese loss would be detrimental to the continuity of Xi's party and…

China does have 2.3 million active troops and 700 million humans who would be able to serve if needed. They are considered the 3rd most powerful military. What is the risk?

They can't be invaded, but they can easily be blockaded. Now that China is an economic power, it is also vulnerable to disruption.

China's leaders are smart and they see that issue. I think that is one of the reasons they want to increase land trade through central asia.

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#109

Post by AnimalMuppet » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:31 PM UTC

dm2 wrote: post #101

curiousjorge wrote: post #77

The question is, is President Xi willing to risk military conflict to enforce whatever new lines he draws on the map? I don't think he is. As we saw the air zone China drew that overlapped Korea, Japan and Taiwan, it was promptly ignored by all countries and when the US stealth bombers were flying China was silent . An actual combat that results in Chinese loss would be detrimental to the continuity of Xi's party and…

China does have 2.3 million active troops and 700 million humans who would be able to serve if needed. They are considered the 3rd most powerful military. What is the risk?

Unless they're going to swim or row, those 700 million humans who could fight if needed don't do much in a naval war.

The risk is, if the Chinese pick a naval fight and their navy gets pummeled, it's a PR disaster. That's a risk for the leadership, not so much for the country.

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#110

Post by fraserharris » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:32 PM UTC

georgeecollins wrote: post #104

China is very smart to pursue this strategy. The US is committed to fleet carriers and expensive aircraft, while the Chinese focus on island bases and balistic missiles. The US is hampered by the organizational inertia that keeps us poring resources into systems that worked in WW2 or the Cold War. In that sense the failurs of the F-35 are kind of a blessing for the US Navy. It forces them to think about drones. If th…

High-speed drones will still need landing strips. It will probably be optimal to have smaller, more numerous drone carriers, but not by much.