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What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

nytimes.com

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Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#61

Post by gaius »

honest_joe wrote: post #48

The whole asia is just a boling pot that is going to explode but nobody knows when. I predict the peak to be when the North Korean regime collapses and South tries to absorb the North de facto creating an option for Korea to become a regional military super house. Japanese right wing extremists pushing government to start massive military spending once again creating much more powerful Japan. I do not really know wha…

South tries to absorb the North de facto creating an option for Korea to become a regional military super house

Can you detail your reasoning? If the lessons of West/East Germany are anything to go by, reunification will be followed by an inward looking period in which the work of integration absorbs all resources.

Also the Nork military while large, really wouldn't add anything to the capability of the South - it's poorly equipped, malnourished and badly trained. If it wasn't for the risk of collateral damage to Seoul, any modern military could rout it just as fast as Israel won the Six Day War or the Coalition rolled over Iraq in Gulf War 1.

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#62

Post by honest_joe »

gaius wrote: post #61
honest_joe wrote: post #48

The whole asia is just a boling pot that is going to explode but nobody knows when. I predict the peak to be when the North Korean regime collapses and South tries to absorb the North de facto creating an option for Korea to become a regional military super house. Japanese right wing extremists pushing government to start massive military spending once again creating much more powerful Japan. I do not really know wha…

South tries to absorb the North de facto creating an option for Korea to become a regional military super house Can you detail your reasoning? If the lessons of West/East Germany are anything to go by, reunification will be followed by an inward looking period in which the work of integration absorbs all resources. Also the Nork military while large, really wouldn't add anything to the capability of the South - it's…

The only thing that prevents reunification is the chaebols and politics. And East germany did not have a shitload of minerals they could use / sell.

All true but South is already a regional military powerhouse with the troops from north and 40-60years of work they could really become as strong as the Empire of Japan was.

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#63

Post by eevilspock »

woodchuck64 wrote: post #38
kspaans wrote: post #3

Given the various names for that stretch of water, I'm surprised the NYT doesn't spin the article by calling it e.g. the West Philippine Sea. Maybe because South China Sea is more recognizable in a headline?

Petition to change name of South China Sea to Southeast Asia Sea: https://www.change.org/p/change-the-name-south-china-sea-to-... 420,000+ signatures so far...

China has a billion people. A petition battle is not the way to go.

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#64

Post by Xixi »

honest_joe wrote: post #48

The whole asia is just a boling pot that is going to explode but nobody knows when. I predict the peak to be when the North Korean regime collapses and South tries to absorb the North de facto creating an option for Korea to become a regional military super house. Japanese right wing extremists pushing government to start massive military spending once again creating much more powerful Japan. I do not really know wha…

I'm not sure why you are bringing Japan into this: Japan doesn't have any claim on the Spartly islands, and it would be completely ridiculous for them to make such a claim. If Japan gets involved it will be through an alliance with one (or several) of the countries with an actual stake in this, like the Philippines.

I know anti-Japanese propaganda is strong in China, but there is no need to invent conflicts that do not exist to fuel more hate.

EDIT: for that matter Korea doesn't have any stake in this either. I know there is an important territorial dispute between China and Japan (Senkaku islands), and minor conflicts between Japan/Korea and China/Korea. So a conflict around the Spartly islands could spill in this area, but I don't see it starting from Korea or Japan.

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#65

Post by ForHackernews »

forgetsusername wrote: post #58
wil421 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything is an American conspiracy of some kind. These issue need to be addressed before a smaller country and China start to take shots at each other (I mean this literally and figuratively). Similar issues are happening in Ukraine with Russia annexing Crimeria. What if China wants a piece of the Philippines or Vietnam? It needs to be addressed on an international stage before the civilians on both sides begin…

> Not everything is an American conspiracy of some kind. Sure. Unlike the Russians, or the communists, or the terrorists, this time there's a true global threat. > What if China wants a piece of the Philippines or Vietnam? Exactly: what if? Are we going to prepare for every possible scenario? There are a lot of them.

> Unlike the Russians, or the communists, or the terrorists, this time there's a true global threat.

Maybe you should talk to some older Polish, Czech or East-German people and tell them the USSR wasn't a real threat...

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#67

Post by adventured »

smcl wrote: post #53
timiblossom wrote: post #33

The building to convert reef to island is one of the first steps to claim the entire Southeast-Asia sea by China. It will then have the self-declared ownership right to block all sea/air traffics through this region and bully other neighboring countries. Besides having a huge oil/gas reserve and fishes, in term of economic impact, this sea is as important as or more than Panama Canal or Suez Canal. A country with the…

My word the southern reaches of the Chinese claim are extremely grabby! Is this just similar to haggling in a bazaar for an item listed at $30, which you personally value at $20 so you open with a lowballed offer of $10?

You're being generous. China is annexing territory that belongs to Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, and the Philippines. The same thing that Russia is doing in Ukraine. It's an act of war, the issue is that the world is very afraid of China (both militarily and economically).

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#68

Post by simonh »

zaczac wrote: post #66

What U.S. had been done with Hawaii? Entire mexico gulf? starting Gulf War for owning red sea? And Pacific Ocean becomes U.S. domestic lake? who brought up the world tension?

Whataboutism.

"Don't look at what we're doing over here, look at these other people over there."

It's equivalent to a direct admission that what China is doing is wrong and you know it. Presumably if you could actualy defend China's actions, you do so instead of changing the subject.

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#69

Post by honest_joe »

Xixi wrote: post #64
honest_joe wrote: post #48

The whole asia is just a boling pot that is going to explode but nobody knows when. I predict the peak to be when the North Korean regime collapses and South tries to absorb the North de facto creating an option for Korea to become a regional military super house. Japanese right wing extremists pushing government to start massive military spending once again creating much more powerful Japan. I do not really know wha…

I'm not sure why you are bringing Japan into this: Japan doesn't have any claim on the Spartly islands, and it would be completely ridiculous for them to make such a claim. If Japan gets involved it will be through an alliance with one (or several) of the countries with an actual stake in this, like the Philippines. I know anti-Japanese propaganda is strong in China, but there is no need to invent conflicts that do n…

Because Japan has a dispute with China on other islands. I never said they would try to claim the spartlys.

Heavy Japan alliance with Phillippines is unlikely (history, empire of japan, blah blah).

It's not about anti-japanese sentiment here but more like japanese fear of revenge from chinese and maybe the right time to make a point.

The more passive-aggressive China is the more likely it's that Korea and Japan will do something about it.

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#70

Post by adventured »

zaczac wrote: post #66

What U.S. had been done with Hawaii? Entire mexico gulf? starting Gulf War for owning red sea? And Pacific Ocean becomes U.S. domestic lake? who brought up the world tension?

The US doesn't lay claim to the Pacific Ocean, and it has a right to transit its navy in open waters. It does not make a habit of navigating its navy into other nation's waters without their permission.

The US does not claim ownership over any part of the Gulf of Mexico that it doesn't blatantly have a right to, as this image makes very clear:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/Te...

The southern tip of Texas across to the southern tip of Florida is extremely reasonable as a water claim.

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