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What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

nytimes.com

41–50 of 178 posts

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#41
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We (USA) have a gigantic navy base replete with nuclear weapons 1000mi from China mainland. Where is the closest Chinese nuke base to the US?

Does it matter where nuclear weapons are? Can China or the US deliver one anywhere in the world?

No, once someone fires one nuclear missile no one will be left to argue who won.

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#42
post #40
post #27

A big part of this is also "creating facts on the ground" that align as closely as possible with the PRC's "9-dash line"[1], especially prior to a decision being made in the Philippines v. China case before the Permanent Court of Arbitration. Those facts also provide much better power projection capabilities to the PLAN (the PRC's Navy). Development of the islands actually accelerated dramatically when the case was f…

But isn't this tactic of fabricating islands to lay claim too transparent? How could any court agree to the claims, why, yes, you demonstrated prior control, you indeed had a permanent population there"? To anyone seeing this this is an obvious objective to nullify claims by ph, vn, my, jp, etc. Can international courts be persuaded by these obvious artificial methods of establishing jurisdiction?

It doesn't really matter how transparent it is, since, International Law has rather little ability to enforce its decisions.

As much as we try to develop rules and norms to constrain and moderate behavior by countries in the international community, at the end of the day, "the strong [still] do as they can and the weak [still] suffer what they must".

And yes, you're right that the actions and intentions are pretty transparent, with just some uncertainty surrounding the extent (ie, what reasoning will the PRC ultimately use to justify its claims, as it's also been quite ambiguous about them).

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#43
post #3

Given the various names for that stretch of water, I'm surprised the NYT doesn't spin the article by calling it e.g. the West Philippine Sea. Maybe because South China Sea is more recognizable in a headline?

Petition to change name of South China Sea to Southeast Asia Sea: https://www.change.org/p/change-the-name-south-china-sea-to-... 420,000+ signatures so far...

Followed shortly by the petition to rename China to Asia.

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#44
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything is an American conspiracy of some kind. These issue need to be addressed before a smaller country and China start to take shots at each other (I mean this literally and figuratively). Similar issues are happening in Ukraine with Russia annexing Crimeria. What if China wants a piece of the Philippines or Vietnam? It needs to be addressed on an international stage before the civilians on both sides begin…

I'm not saying you're wrong - it certainly needs to be addressed - but you make it sound like Russia and China are the only villains. I think these issues need to be resolved without assessing blame, because the world's most powerful countries always try to impose their will on other smaller sovereign states. Interesting that you mention Vietnam.

I see what your are getting at and they are not the only villains (see US/Iraq conflict). The biggest difference between Russia's expansion and the US' conflicts is the US doesn't annex the countries we invade (in modern times at least).

Only mentioned Vietnam because it was discussed in the article. Besides US Troops arent fighting proxy wars with Russia at the moment. Just fighting "Terrorists", whatever that means at this time.

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#45
post #4

What a pity they destroyed those reefs. Besides that, artificial land is nothing new, a good chunk of NL was made by manipulating the sea. Even so this is clearly a 'landgrab', but not much different other than the time in which it happens (the present, rather than a few hundred years ago). NL did it with the colonies and plenty of other countries did it too. A lot of that has reverted over the last 3 decades but the…

>>Besides that, artificial land is nothing new

Also - hitting closer to home for me is that a good chunk of Boston is on top of man made land. The entire "Back Bay" area (which is what most people consider downtown Boston) was originally underwater.

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#46
post #3

Given the various names for that stretch of water, I'm surprised the NYT doesn't spin the article by calling it e.g. the West Philippine Sea. Maybe because South China Sea is more recognizable in a headline?

Petition to change name of South China Sea to Southeast Asia Sea: https://www.change.org/p/change-the-name-south-china-sea-to-... 420,000+ signatures so far...

> 420,000+ signatures so far...

It actually has a bit over 76,000 signatures.

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#47

So when Dubai does it it's tourism, but when Chinese do it it's a bullying tactic?

I don't remember Dubai building military installations, only selling mansions to those who can afford it. Also they did it right off their own coast and not miles into disputed waters.

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#48
The whole asia is just a boling pot that is going to explode but nobody knows when.

I predict the peak to be when the North Korean regime collapses and South tries to absorb the North de facto creating an option for Korea to become a regional military super house. Japanese right wing extremists pushing government to start massive military spending once again creating much more powerful Japan.

I do not really know what will China do at this stage to be honest. It may try to ally with Korea but i think koreans stay neutral and will try to rebuild the North. It is highly possible that the second miracle on the han river may actually happen and Korea gets richer and richer (after all North has a massive mineral resources and a cheap workforce) and korean GDP might start reaching interesting numbers.

I predict Japan will try to push forward and claim the disputed islands with the support of uncle Sam.

At this point I do not know what happens but i see Korea as a random factor that might start shooting at everyone who is not korean.

Re: What China Has Been Building in the South China Sea

#50
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We (USA) have a gigantic navy base replete with nuclear weapons 1000mi from China mainland. Where is the closest Chinese nuke base to the US?

Does it matter where nuclear weapons are? Can China or the US deliver one anywhere in the world?

With nuclear subs, it really doesn't matter.
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