Live data from Hacker News

Microsoft Small Basic

smallbasic.com

11–20 of 91 posts

Re: Microsoft Small Basic

#11
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Javascript already suitable for that?

Javascript is a mess even programmers don't seem to understand at times, I never understood why people would want to teach it to people without any programming knowledge.

I think JS is perfect choice for first language. Sure, there are many rough edges and dark corners. On the other hand, it's fun, it's safe to experiment (because it's sandboxed), very easy to deploy and show friends, and it's quite usable language for all sorts of applications.

There are more elegant languages (lisp, lua, scala, python) but they fall short at some of mentioned points.

Re: Microsoft Small Basic

#12
post #4
post #2

I like the idea of a lightweight programming language/environment dedicated to entry level learners. Perhaps what would also be interesting is having a basic-esq L/E for whatever programming paradigm that is useful (procedural, oop, functional, etc.)

Isn't Javascript already suitable for that?

I think if you want people to enjoy what you build, JS is probably the quickest route. And I think you see it being used in "intro" programming courses to teach middle school or high school kids for that reason -- it quickly shows something visual where platforms, dependencies, and complex libs have made that harder elsewhere.

It's unfortunate it's a mess of a language and evolving too rapidly.

GWBasic, QBasic, and later TI-Basic were some of my first major forays into software, and I worry a bit when there's not a super easy way to get a game out there - however simple, because those are great gateway drugs.

For BASIC, this meant easy access to graphics modes, and some basic "BEEP" and noise playing ability.

These were all installed by default -- something that's not true of most programming tools today (well not entirely, OS X does have them! But not game/graphics libs), and having the source code to things like gorillas and snake helped. Many people could discover them completely by accident and boom, you're a programmer!

And that's all you need.

JS has a bit more learning curve.

OT: I think the glossy production of games these days may also be a negative factor, for those that know they can take millions of dollars, people trying to reproduce this result at a young age (or even as older hobbyists) may get disllusioned, give up, and not build something.

Just as DevOps culture has encouraged sharing how tools works at meetups, I wish this happened more for indie/homebrewed game development.

Re: Microsoft Small Basic

#15
post #14

I get a 503 Service Unavailable ?! Anyways, it probably did not change much in the last few days: https://web.archive.org/web/20150727212504/http://smallbasic... Its good this is (still ?) available. But I would prefer my friends or kids to learn in a more platform independent way. Like Python.

Nitpick: *it's

Re: Microsoft Small Basic

#16

Well, if my nephews ever want to take on programming this might be a good place to start. Simple syntax, simple concepts, even the posibility of third-party libraries? Sounds interesting for teaching the young (and not so young too, but at that I'd prefer Python because of it's easier "real world usage" -- this does seem a bit too oriented at "toy programming").

Nitpick: *its

Re: Microsoft Small Basic

#17

If I put my kid in front of a modern Windows PC, leave them alone for a few hours, and hope they learn something, I'm not very optimistic. Let's say I install Small Basic on Windows 8.1 or 10. So now I've put my kid in front of an operating system that has such a high-level UI that it doesn't even have a proper list of programs. The media consuming portion of the OS is so heavily emphasized over the creative portion…

From the FAQ "To install Small Basic, you have to be running Windows XP, Windows Vista, or Windows 7."

So it's not a problem then :P

Re: Microsoft Small Basic

#18

If I put my kid in front of a modern Windows PC, leave them alone for a few hours, and hope they learn something, I'm not very optimistic. Let's say I install Small Basic on Windows 8.1 or 10. So now I've put my kid in front of an operating system that has such a high-level UI that it doesn't even have a proper list of programs. The media consuming portion of the OS is so heavily emphasized over the creative portion…

Put them in front of windows 10 with Visual Studio 2015 Community Edition installed....

I get the lock it down to command line only so they can learn the way I did mentality. I'm going to do the same thing to my son, but I'd say that Windows 10 is an entertainment device is going a little far.

Windows has long been the enterprise software of choice for buisnises, MS Office? On top of that most of the software you list is all on the web (Netflix, Facebook), so the internet could be said to be all about entertainment. But again that's an oversimplification.

The main contention I can see with windows 8 are apps (which treat it like a phone) windows 10 kinda gets away from that by making all apps windowed (like windows). I find Windows 8 is easier to use with just a keyboard at times. The windows search functionality is great, and they've improved many of the commands.

If your kids can get at the internet they can get at entertainment. But if you cut off the internet then you cut off their ability to research the problem.

Re: Microsoft Small Basic

#19

If I put my kid in front of a modern Windows PC, leave them alone for a few hours, and hope they learn something, I'm not very optimistic. Let's say I install Small Basic on Windows 8.1 or 10. So now I've put my kid in front of an operating system that has such a high-level UI that it doesn't even have a proper list of programs. The media consuming portion of the OS is so heavily emphasized over the creative portion…

wow.

Re: Microsoft Small Basic

#20
post #4
post #2

I like the idea of a lightweight programming language/environment dedicated to entry level learners. Perhaps what would also be interesting is having a basic-esq L/E for whatever programming paradigm that is useful (procedural, oop, functional, etc.)

Isn't Javascript already suitable for that?

I have taught JS in higher education to complete beginners for three years now and have been very successful doing so. The secret is that you teach how to program, not how to JavaScript.

How to program is entirely different. It involves breaking down problems, creating abstractions for those problems, and turning them into code. And JavaScript is the one language that gets out of your way and lets you create programs that give new learners immediate feedback in a web browser.

Python and Ruby are great and all, but this is 2015 and new students are not that interested in black and white terminal applications. JS and HTML make it easy to make things closer to what they experience.

People my age learned to program while playing text adventure games. People now want to make mobile games, XBox games, or, at least, web things. And JS makes that easy.

In full disclosure, I don't much like JS. But I know it quite well.

Post reply on HN