Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

blog.mozilla.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 311 posts

Re: Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

#241

Post by felipeerias »

yarou wrote: post #206
felipeerias wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason, everybody feels like they should have a say in the direction of large Free SW projects, even if they have never contributed. Some criticisms of Mozilla are fair (even if blown out of proportion, like the Pocket issue), but one can not expect a project to make development even more complex by adding a "revert it because this one guy doesn't like it" button for each change or feature.

Technically, everyone has a say in the direction of a large, free software project. It's called a fork.

Forking usually happens when a group or individual is unable to steer the direction a project. Having to go on your own is pretty much the opposite of "having a say".

Re: Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

#242

Post by coldpie »

nova wrote: post #239
coldpie wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I remember when we could sling racist, misogynistic, and homophobic slurs around without a thought for the feelings of non-whites, minorities, or an entire half of the world's population. Thanks to those slurs, the world was a better place because, uh... because... er, uh, hm...

So, free speech is great as long as you don't strongly disagree with it.

"Free speech" does not mean "free from all consequence," and never has.

Re: Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

#243

Post by felipeerias »

byuu wrote: post #232
felipeerias wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason, everybody feels like they should have a say in the direction of large Free SW projects, even if they have never contributed. Some criticisms of Mozilla are fair (even if blown out of proportion, like the Pocket issue), but one can not expect a project to make development even more complex by adding a "revert it because this one guy doesn't like it" button for each change or feature.

I haven't contributed directly to Mozilla, no. As a software dev that's received plenty of criticism as well, I'll just say that when I post detailed complaints about things I don't like, it's not because I want to harm or destroy their software. If I truly hated their software, I wouldn't be using it or talking about it at all. For all of Mozilla's faults, the only real cross-platform alternative (Chrome) is even wo…

As I said, some of the criticisms are fair. At the same time, the kind of issues that we techies tend to complain about are largely not behind that drop in market share: the majority of those users have moved on to browsers that are worse in terms of privacy and security.

It is a tricky issue and the comparison with GNOME is apt. At the end of the day, the last word belongs to the companies and individuals actually doing the work. We on the outside can still try to convince them, of course.

Re: Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

#244

Post by nova »

coldpie wrote: post #242
nova wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, free speech is great as long as you don't strongly disagree with it.

"Free speech" does not mean "free from all consequence," and never has.

What do yo really mean by that?

Personally I worry that mere attaching some empty labels to an argument is reason enough justify censoring it.

Re: Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

#245

Post by hartator »

amatwl wrote: post #107
callahad wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, it's kind of embarrassing that Mozilla's official video for this shows an unactivated version of Windows 10. All pre-release builds of Windows 10 have that watermark. Why is that embarrassing? Edit: I stand corrected; there is an "Activate Windows" watermark distinct from the build identifier, which was added in the later preview builds. There was a window of time where new VMs couldn't be activated, since th…

Um, no. Not all pre-release builds of Windows 10 have that watermark. I'm talking about the "Activate Windows" message. Also, the final version of Windows 10 has been released (and the video was recorded after the final version was released), so no reason to use a pre-release version of Windows in the video.

I don't get why you got downvoted, it's indeed not looking really serious to realese a video with this kind of watermark. Sure, well, whatever. I think the whatever has became the new moto at Mozilla.

Re: Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

#246

Post by coldpie »

nova wrote: post #244
coldpie wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Free speech" does not mean "free from all consequence," and never has.

What do yo really mean by that? Personally I worry that mere attaching some empty labels to an argument is reason enough justify censoring it.

I mean that if you choose to use slurs or donate money to hate groups, and are ostracized from a community as a result, then invoking "free speech" is not sufficient defense to be allowed back into that community.

Or, in popular comic form: https://xkcd.com/1357/

Re: Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

#247

Post by Yoric »

dhimes wrote: post #238
Yoric wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can file a bug. Is it that page? https://sendto.mozilla.org/page/contribute/givenow-seq?sourc...

yes, thank you.

Filed: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1189773

Re: Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

#248

Post by notsony »

staticelf wrote: post #193
notsony wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't care about Mozilla or Firefox. I used to, but not anymore. Two reasons why. First, copying Chrome's UI. Second, forcing Brendan Eich out. These days Mozilla comes across as a bunch of whiners and activists rather than a technology company. Maybe Rust will be successful but I don't want to be part of an ecosystem where straight talking and free thought is banned. Do you want to submit a pull request and be tol…

> Do you want to submit a pull request and be told not to use gendered pronouns or avoid using certain words because it makes people feel unsafe? Is that really true? Can you give an example of that?

Referring to Node.js pronoun drama which led to one key developer being virtually "fired" by Joyent and forced out of a project.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6845286

Re: Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

#250

Post by Lawtonfogle »

smacktoward wrote: post #145
lawl wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reacting to backlash isn't an argument. Why would you (or anyone) downvote me for criticising things like integrating a social API[0] into the browser? If you feel like downvoting opinions you don't like, by all means go ahead, I'm just not sure if that's the way to have a meaningful discussion. Pocket never bothered me because, honestly, I never saw it. But yes I dislike it's integration. Still no reason to reduce t…

"Reacting to backlash," a.k.a. admitting they made a mistake and agreeing to roll it back, is normally exactly what you want people to do when you criticize them. Otherwise, what's the point of the criticism? Just to make yourself feel good?

The problem is judging between an honest misstep and someone constantly pushing the boundaries to see where they can go without people yelling. A lot of it has to do with the difference between crossing the boundary in that particular case and crossing the boundary in general. To further complicate matters, much innovation results from crossing certain boundaries, meaning that pushing on the wrong boundaries may be the result of an incorrect direction for innovation, and thus resulting criticism may be directed not just at the misstep but as at the direction of innovation.
Post reply on HN