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Python is the new BASIC

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Re: Python is the new BASIC

#51

Post by nsxwolf »

ZitchDog wrote: post #14

Nope, sorry. Python is an easy, good language. Basic was not popular because it was easy, or even good, it was popular because it was everywhere. JavaScript, for all its warts and foibles, is the new basic. It's easy enough, and it's everywhere.

There is no new BASIC. BASIC was the de facto operating system for most personal computers. You would turn it on and you'd be presented with BASIC.

There's just nothing like that today. Computers today keep regular users as far away from programming as possible.

Re: Python is the new BASIC

#52

Post by anentropic »

agentultra wrote: post #42
ZitchDog wrote: post #14

Nope, sorry. Python is an easy, good language. Basic was not popular because it was easy, or even good, it was popular because it was everywhere. JavaScript, for all its warts and foibles, is the new basic. It's easy enough, and it's everywhere.

Python, fwiw, is a better BASIC. It includes a built-in Turtle graphics system and a decent IDE. You can teach loops and draw graphics in just a few lines of code: import turtle turtle.setup() turtle.forward(100) turtle.turn(90) turtle.forward(100) And so on. That initial experience has been one of the easiest to teach kids outside of a visual environment like Scratch. Some friends of mine have tried teaching Javascr…

turtle wasn't BASIC... turtle was Logo!

my first programming language, approx age 9 on the BBC Micro at school :)

Re: Python is the new BASIC

#53

Post by jacquesm »

Sami_Lehtinen wrote: post #49
jacquesm wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> console.log("Hello") is not more complicated than print("Hello"). Actually, it is (it requires a package prefix) and it's: print "hello" (Print was never a function in BASIC but a statement)

Python 3.5 is out, are you still using the legacy version? SyntaxError: Missing parentheses in call to 'print'

I think you missed the joke.

Re: Python is the new BASIC

#54

Post by edw519 »

ourmandave wrote: post #45
edw519 wrote: post #37

My story: 1976 to 1985: COBOL (hell) 1985 to 1999: BASIC (joy) 1999 to now: BASIC + Javascript (turbojoy) When I encounter something I can't easily build with my current toolset, I'll look for the "new BASIC". So far, that's never happened.

What version of BASIC are you using today?

databasic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_BASIC_dialects

Re: Python is the new BASIC

#55

Post by bite_victim »

lectrick wrote: post #48
bite_victim wrote: post #26

> PHP is not the new BASIC. Combine the HTML/CSS/JavaScript arguments above, and throw in setting up Apache and a thoroughly bloated namespace. PHP is a poor candidate. Yes, we hate PHP. Hurrr! It is so hard to setup Apache to run it especially considering how easy it is for Python. OH, and yes, PHP doesn't have a CLI! PHP is only good for web because I say so. What? PHP does have a CLI? It is in fact the same proces…

The fact that PHP is hated by anyone who learned PHP and moved onto other, ostensibly better things is the reason why all the hate exists. Given any programming task, you're just going to end up with better code in pretty much any other language, especially a functional one.

> Given any programming task, you're just going to end up with better code in pretty much any other language, especially a functional one.

This is the exact bull* that good hearted Haskell and Lisp guys have to face and fix because of arrogant people like you.

First of all, a good PHP programmer is a good programmer. End of story. You can write crystal clear code in PHP that anyone who started with C (how many I wonder?) or a C inspired language can read. Spreading information and knowledge IS FAR MORE IMPORTANT than debating the language.

Let me ask you a question, did you just happen to read that post that was recently on the front page of HN? The one that showed how much awesome is Lisp comparing to Python? How Python's creator seems to hate Lisp (functional programming)? Did you read it and got to the conclusion that since (perhaps) you are using a functional language then you are entitled to spew crap like that since you are the holder of truth?

Congratulation! PHP is worse than a functional language (you can write functional code in Python and PHP btw) and you are the winning lord of programming languages debates!

Re: Python is the new BASIC

#56

Post by arturhoo »

As a Data Visualization enthusiast, I can say that Processing [0] is a great candidate for an introductory language to introduce programming (and computer science in general).

It is a less verbose subset and superset of Java at the same time, has a solid IDE providing great visual feedback as the code changes and you can introduce real, physical world concepts through classes, polymorphism and what not in a way that doesn't look too abstract. In fact, many visual arts courses have successfully introduced programming to an audience of designers and artists that are usually not fond of it.

Installing it is a 100MB download away and you can even make use of the universal aspect of javascript through ProcessingJS [1] or p5.js [2], or even through Python [3].

[0]: https://processing.org/ [1]: http://processingjs.org/ [2]: http://p5js.org/ [3]: http://py.processing.org/

Re: Python is the new BASIC

#57

Post by anentropic »

david927 wrote: post #13

Yesterday I had to explain to my 9-year-old daughter that the bug in her Python script was due to the fact that she indented with a tab and not four spaces. Trying to publish her program so that her friends could use it was a nightmare (it's a console app). It's 2015 and we have the brightest minds working on this stuff and it's all shit.

it's 2015 and you're still using the wrong editor

Re: Python is the new BASIC

#58

Post by [deleted] »

jacquesm wrote: post #39
ZitchDog wrote: post #14

Nope, sorry. Python is an easy, good language. Basic was not popular because it was easy, or even good, it was popular because it was everywhere. JavaScript, for all its warts and foibles, is the new basic. It's easy enough, and it's everywhere.

Basic was popular because that was all you had . It was everywhere because computers shipped with it and other programming languages were simply prohibitively expensive. And so many of those working with computers at the time would roll their own assemblers to escape from BASIC (slow, inefficient use of memory). Agreed that Javascript is the new BASIC, Python needs to be installed, just like BASIC javascript is alrea…

[deleted]

Re: Python is the new BASIC

#60

Post by mtberatwork »

protomyth wrote: post #46
bite_victim wrote: post #26

> PHP is not the new BASIC. Combine the HTML/CSS/JavaScript arguments above, and throw in setting up Apache and a thoroughly bloated namespace. PHP is a poor candidate. Yes, we hate PHP. Hurrr! It is so hard to setup Apache to run it especially considering how easy it is for Python. OH, and yes, PHP doesn't have a CLI! PHP is only good for web because I say so. What? PHP does have a CLI? It is in fact the same proces…

This is the one lesson of PHP that seems to be ignored by a lot (most?) new languages. If you want your language to be popular with beginning web programmers, then provide system administrators with a dead simple way to install it. Add package, done. Then make sure it doesn't cause too much trouble or at least upgrades easily. If it takes almost no effort to install your language and any modules that users might need…

It's really only "easy" if you are using mod_php. If you are using PHP-FPM, FastCGI, etc, as most people do who run production PHP, then things get about as complicated as using uWSGI, mod_wsgi, etc with Python.

On that note though, getting mod_wsgi up and running with Apache is really quite simple.

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