Python is the new BASIC • Hacker News Board

Re: Python is the new BASIC

#31

Post by scriptproof » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 1:51 PM UTC

hliyan wrote: post #20

ZitchDog wrote: post #14

Nope, sorry. Python is an easy, good language. Basic was not popular because it was easy, or even good, it was popular because it was everywhere. JavaScript, for all its warts and foibles, is the new basic. It's easy enough, and it's everywhere.

Agreed. Callback hell in JavaScript is reminiscent of the GOTO-hell we used to suffer as BASIC programs grew larger. Like you said, with all its problems it was still ubiquitous and practical. So is JavaScript.

console.log("Hello") is not more complicated than print("Hello"). For the callbacks it is actually possible to not use them. See how to: http://www.xul.fr/javascript/no-callback.php (and it is even very simple). That is just a matter of style.

Re: Python is the new BASIC

#32

Post by wiremine » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 1:51 PM UTC

vbezhenar wrote: post #15

wiremine wrote: post #9

I remember trying to program some BASIC back in 1st grade, which was 31 years ago. I was terrible at it, but I was hooked. Fast forward to today: my 4th grader asked me the other day which language he should learn, and I was stumped. I ran through the languages I know well in my head: Java, PHP, Perl, Python, Ruby, Javascript, Go, Swift... Wasn't sure what to tell him. His expectations are fairly high, due to Minecra…

I think minecraft red stones are turing complete. Someone built a simple processor with those red stones.

Ah, good to know! Got any links?

Re: Python is the new BASIC

#33

Post by dpcan » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 1:52 PM UTC

ZitchDog wrote: post #14

Nope, sorry. Python is an easy, good language. Basic was not popular because it was easy, or even good, it was popular because it was everywhere. JavaScript, for all its warts and foibles, is the new basic. It's easy enough, and it's everywhere.

Probably the best point here by far.

I didn't start learning to program because I wanted to program, I learned to program because I saw a file called GORILLA.BAS in one of the folders on my MS-DOS machine.

Once I figured out I could open it in QBASIC and just press F5.... that was it... I would be a programmer for my next 20+ years and counting.

EDIT:

I would also like to point out how important the QBASIC IDE was as well. F5 to run. Put your cursor over any function and press F1 and it gave you a full description. It fixed your syntax (somewhat) as you coded too. It would highlight the line where the error happened. It literally held your hand through creating whatever you could dream up at the time.

Re: Python is the new BASIC

#34

Post by rasz_pl » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 1:52 PM UTC

ZitchDog wrote: post #14

Nope, sorry. Python is an easy, good language. Basic was not popular because it was easy, or even good, it was popular because it was everywhere. JavaScript, for all its warts and foibles, is the new basic. It's easy enough, and it's everywhere.

I agree with your assertion. Javascript is as ubiquitous and horrible as Basic was in the day. One of the WORST languages to learn as a first.

Re: Python is the new BASIC

#35

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 1:53 PM UTC

impostervt wrote: post #2

As a javascript fan, console.log("Hello World") seems pretty simple. Sure, when you get into async it might confuse young kids (or experienced programmers), but most beginner stuff won't need callbacks.

[deleted]

Re: Python is the new BASIC

#36

Post by scriptproof » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 1:54 PM UTC

megaman22 wrote: post #23

Very true. It probably can't happen for various reasons, but I would love if windows just folded python 3.2 in as part of the default install. Python certainly feels, to me, like the most similar language to the old QBasic. Simple syntax, with advanced features that you can use, or not use, pretty robust standard library, not great, but usable IDE built-in (I assume IDLE still comes in the install?) One of the really…

Maybe Python has all these qualities, but it is - different -. If you learn programming with Python, you have to relearn it again to use any other common language, Java, C#, JavaScript etc...

Re: Python is the new BASIC

#37

Post by edw519 » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 1:55 PM UTC

My story:

  1976 to 1985: COBOL (hell)
  1985 to 1999: BASIC (joy)
  1999 to now:  BASIC + Javascript (turbojoy)

When I encounter something I can't easily build with my current toolset, I'll look for the "new BASIC". So far, that's never happened.

Re: Python is the new BASIC

#38

Post by sigzero » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 1:55 PM UTC

bite_victim wrote: post #26

> PHP is not the new BASIC. Combine the HTML/CSS/JavaScript arguments above, and throw in setting up Apache and a thoroughly bloated namespace. PHP is a poor candidate. Yes, we hate PHP. Hurrr! It is so hard to setup Apache to run it especially considering how easy it is for Python. OH, and yes, PHP doesn't have a CLI! PHP is only good for web because I say so. What? PHP does have a CLI? It is in fact the same proces…

PHP and CLI? Sure it has it. PHP isn't installed by default even in many of the places that Python is. I have never met a Sys Admin that uses PHP as his CLI scripting language and I would shake my head and walk away if one did.

Re: Python is the new BASIC

#39

Post by jacquesm » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 1:56 PM UTC

ZitchDog wrote: post #14

Nope, sorry. Python is an easy, good language. Basic was not popular because it was easy, or even good, it was popular because it was everywhere. JavaScript, for all its warts and foibles, is the new basic. It's easy enough, and it's everywhere.

Basic was popular because that was all you had. It was everywhere because computers shipped with it and other programming languages were simply prohibitively expensive. And so many of those working with computers at the time would roll their own assemblers to escape from BASIC (slow, inefficient use of memory).

Agreed that Javascript is the new BASIC, Python needs to be installed, just like BASIC javascript is already present on your computer whether you like it or not.

Re: Python is the new BASIC

#40

Post by IndianAstronaut » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 1:57 PM UTC

rasz_pl wrote: post #34

ZitchDog wrote: post #14

Nope, sorry. Python is an easy, good language. Basic was not popular because it was easy, or even good, it was popular because it was everywhere. JavaScript, for all its warts and foibles, is the new basic. It's easy enough, and it's everywhere.

I agree with your assertion. Javascript is as ubiquitous and horrible as Basic was in the day. One of the WORST languages to learn as a first.

It was taught mainly because it is the only language teachers could really understand.