I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10 • Hacker News Board

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#491

Post by userbinator » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 9:24 AM UTC

kctess5 wrote: post #430

pdkl95 wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what data is actually sent? It's important to remember that it doesn't matter what MS is doing today. What matters is what the force-updated version will do in the future. Or did everybody forget that you cannot prevent updates in this version?

Think about this... If more things forced auto-updates, we might not have been forced to support ie6 for so damn long. It's a trade off. Instant security patches, instant support for new standards, etc, all without having to worry about all of those users who just will not press that "update" button. Sounds like a pretty decent plan to me. I would be fairly surprised if Microsoft didn't re-display TOS after each upda…

Instant security patches, instant support for new standards, etc

...as well as instantly "brick" a significant number of machines out there. At least the user has a chance of correlating something breaking with a recent update if he/she explicitly did so. MS have screwed up Windows updates before, and I don't believe they'll suddenly start getting it perfect now.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#492

Post by Too » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 9:30 AM UTC

npizzolato wrote: post #357

thaumaturgy wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hell, look at this very thread on HN. There are people further upthread essentially saying, "Whatever, I like it because it's convenient." I have adopted a passive stance on privacy and security: I stay up-to-date on news in this area, I choose for myself products and systems that minimally increase my risk, and I will answer questions from clients or other people. But, I won't evangelize it. Most people really just…

> Hell, look at this very thread on HN. There are people further upthread essentially saying, "Whatever, I like it because it's convenient." Is that so ridiculous a concept? People routinely trade privacy for convenience. Sending my location to Google through their maps is ridiculously convenient. Getting around using public transportation, especially in a city I'm unfamiliar with, would be a pretty awful experience…

Why does convenience and privacy have to contradict each other?

Parsing airline confirmations should be possible to do offline. Preferably by some standard data format like iCal but even if airlines can't agree on such a format it shouldn't be difficult to compile a scraper that can be run offline, with an updater that contains all the various formats.

Sending your location should not be required to display a dot on a map of where you are. Even navigation can be done offline to a certain extent, OsmAnd does it and that's what tomtom and cars have been doing for years.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#493

Post by npizzolato » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 9:31 AM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #461

npizzolato wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hell, look at this very thread on HN. There are people further upthread essentially saying, "Whatever, I like it because it's convenient." Is that so ridiculous a concept? People routinely trade privacy for convenience. Sending my location to Google through their maps is ridiculously convenient. Getting around using public transportation, especially in a city I'm unfamiliar with, would be a pretty awful experience…

>>Is that so ridiculous a concept? People routinely trade privacy for convenience. Sending my location to Google through their maps is ridiculously convenient. If you cannot tell the difference between you sending your location to Google when you need to and half the people in the world sending ALL their information to Microsoft ALL the time BY DEFAULT, I don't know what to tell you.

Did you stop reading after those three sentences? Because I talked about digital assistants and Google Now, which is basically sending all your information to Google all the time.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#494

Post by Aoyagi » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 9:35 AM UTC

ewzimm wrote: post #20

Windows is now essentially a personalized, cloud-based operating system with the primary interface as a personal assistant, so I expected to see all these things as defaults. The advanced features just couldn't work without it. I'm glad there's at least an opt-out, but I do think that Windows needs an OS-wide incognito mode, just a simple switch to record or not record data. I generally use that on my browser for whe…

> fine-grained permissions of Windows Phone

What do you mean by that? Not only you can't set any access rights for applications (they get what they ask for and you can either accept all or not install the application), but the OS also synchronizes your main account's contacts and calendar to THE CLOUD without asking you, telling you, and even without a way to opt out of it.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#495

Post by ionised » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 9:36 AM UTC

coldpie wrote: post #57

CSDude wrote: post #12

Upon seeing these options in the installation, I thought I downloaded beta version that needs these for feedbacks Realizing I have installed retail version, I regretted my decision now I will read the all EULA for the firet time in my lifetime to see what it gets without asking. And probably I will just keep windows for games only.

Are the games really worth it? There's a lot of games out there. You can live with missing a few Windows-exclusive titles.

Huh?

If you want to play PC games you pretty much HAVE to have Windows save for a few titles that alos work on Linux/OSX.

This is why I'm hoping Steam OS becomes a viable replacement for a desktop gaming machine in the future.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#496

Post by bgroins » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 9:36 AM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #489

Someone I know who has been in the cracking/warez scene for over 20 years, and did a lot of analysis on the XP activation scheme when it first came out, had this to say about Windows 10 and the trend in general: Remember Gates said, about piracy "we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade"? It is happening now. And lots of other software/service are becoming "free" or massive discount, since…

What he actually said: http://www.cnet.com/news/gates-buffett-a-bit-bearish/

Gates shed some light on his own hard-nosed business philosophy. "Although about 3 million computers get sold every year in China, but people don't pay for the software," he said. "Someday they will, though. As long as they are going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade."

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#497

Post by richmarr » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 9:40 AM UTC

johnchristopher wrote: post #467

freehunter wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Who wanted that for desktop computers or laptops? I did. Linux and OSX are still available for whoever wants them. You can stick with Windows 7 if you want, that's just fine. I like Cortana. I like my software knowing what I like and what I'm interested in. It makes my life easier, which is what computers were invented for. I can see why some people might not, and to be fair I use Linux on my work laptop because the…

> But like I can see your side of the argument, you have to be able to see that some other people want personalization and learning and all that. Pandora and Apple Music are both heavily tailored that way. Google Now on your phone knows everything you do. Netflix can find videos for you to watch based on what you've watched before. Amazon will recommend purchases to you based on what you like. Hell, half the people o…

It's not just about advertising. By looking at customer data in aggregate you can learn more about behaviour patterns and support the things your customers might be interested in doing. Buying products is one of the things you might be interested in doing.

That said, this whole thing gives me the creeps and I'm glad I'm no longer a Microsoftie.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#498

Post by ionised » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 9:42 AM UTC

acqq wrote: post #293

mappu wrote: post #213

Hijacking this thread - if anyone used the official media creation tool to get a x86_64 Professional ISO, can you please post MD5/SHA1 hashes? Mine don't match anything on google.

https://techjourney.net/download-official-windows-10-iso-via... "Note that the file hashes (CRC32, SHA1, MDA and etc.) for Windows 10 ISO images created by Media Creation Tool are unique as time stamps and other factors are different for each computers."

So basically they're saying there are no file hashes for you to check, because the only way to download an ISO is through the Media Creation Tool.

I don't know why they don't just let you download the ISO directly without some pointless middle-man downloader tool.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#499

Post by saiya-jin » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 9:47 AM UTC

com2kid wrote: post #377

Animats wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Windows is now essentially a personalized, cloud-based operating system with the primary interface as a personal assistant." Who wanted that for desktop computers or laptops? This is not going to fly with business customers. Microsoft has already bombed twice in the business space, with Windows Vista and Windows 8. This looks like another bomb. Windows 7 is still pretty good, and it will probably be the main Microso…

> Who wanted that for desktop computers or laptops? Everyone who is switching over to cloud connected OSs on their tablets and smartphones. Why should I have to reinstall and resetup every new computer? My contacts have been following me around on my phone for 8 years now, why the heck shouldn't they be just as accessible from my PC? My favorites, they should always be there. Chrome does a great job of this, it is ni…

do you realize, as many others here and everywhere else, do not care a bit about some cloud or anything else? I can install my computers on my own, thank you. the whole discussion about people justifying is a bit ridiculous, to be honest.

why don't you all pro-MS or pro-let's-lose-privacy people don't get a single thing - as per moral standards, any kind of option should be disabled by default (meaning 95% or more people on this planet will never enable it) and you should chose only enable that if you will? It could be the first screen welcoming you on first start of OS, whatever. not even having an option to disable it on cheaper windows is just plain wrong & smells cheap, again in moral sense. As we all know, corporations, any kind, are not high on morality these days. Increasing shareholder value at all costs and similar is the mantra. that google and others are doing it doesn't make it any more right (i have all these things like google one disabled on my phone anyway, at least that's what I like to think :))

As to why we want to not use it, I do believe Mr. Snowden made a point or two in the past.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#500

Post by drdaeman » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 9:52 AM UTC

JoshTriplett wrote: post #11

sudioStudio64 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a new one on me. Bitlocker keys can be backed up to onedrive if you want, but you can also store them in a TPM or a smartcard (physical or virtual).

See http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2015/07/29/wind-nos/ ; "Windows 10 automatically encrypts the drive its installed on and generates a BitLocker recovery key. That’s backed up to your OneDrive account." Together with the ToS: "We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good…

Read this warning on release day, went to read this myself and haven't found such statement neither in ToS, nor in Privacy Policy.

This paragraph (about private communications and files in private folders) seems to be gone from their Privacy Policy. Google cache confirms it was present (in PP, not ToS), but I suppose MS spotted had this insane statement and removed in a hurry - or hid somewhere else, deeper in small fine print and with another wording.

(Or maybe I had totally missed something, scrolling through the document and my browser's search function malfunctioned.)