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I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

jonathan.porta.codes

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Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#471

Post by hirsin »

edwhitesell wrote: post #144
jimrandomh wrote: post #52

"Send typing and inking data to Microsoft to improve the recognition and suggestion platform" "Typing data" sounds like keylogging. If it's what it sounds like, that's really emphatically not okay; that would include all passwords and the contents of all emails sent. Would someone with actual knowledge care to chime in and say what data is actually sent? If it turns out that Windows 10 really is sending keystrokes to…

IE and other browsers configured to use Bing have done this for a while. I discovered it while packet sniffing for something else and seeing HTTP requests for the things I was typing in the Address Bar. I can't say I'm surprised, though saddened, to see this elsewhere in the OS.

Anything that uses web-supported auto-complete (your browsers, for one, regardless of search engine) must do this. There's literally no other way to ask the internet "What are the possible endings/meanings of what I've typed" without providing what you've typed, letter by letter.

Text correction doesn't require hitting the web, but learning about how people make typos does require some targeted data collection (typing followed by deletion and retyping, likely)

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#472

Post by yAnonymous »

niyogi wrote: post #248

It's too bad that microsoft continues to be villainized when companies like Facebook and Google have social networks and browsers respectively that have similar practices that users are even more unaware of when they use them. Computers these days have become thin clients for browsers (especially for the typical consumer). Except for the occasional open of Word or Excel, you're in your web browser browsing the web an…

So we should stop criticizing Microsoft, because Facebook, Apple and Google are not criticized enough?

That's some pre-school logic.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#473

Post by Filthy_casual »

MaulingMonkey wrote: post #410
userbinator wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like my software knowing what I like and what I'm interested in. It makes my life easier, which is what computers were invented for. Philosophical question: is it really your life, if your software may be subtly persuading you in a different direction than what you would've taken if it hadn't been making the suggestions to influence you? There is no doubt it will make things easier for you if all you do is effectiv…

> Philosophical question: is it really your life, if your software may be subtly persuading you in a different direction than what you would've taken if it hadn't been making the suggestions to influence you? No less so than if your friends, family, coworkers, and society at large may be subtly persuading you in a different direction than what you would've taken if they hadn't been making the suggestions to influence…

>No less so than if your friends, family, coworkers, and society at large may be subtly persuading you in a different direction than what you would've taken if they hadn't been making the suggestions to influence you.

In spite the fact that in the case of friends, family, coworkers I can be the one persuading them in a different direction and I also know a bit about them (you cannot suggest that in the case of person-company relationship both are as strong in influencing each other, maybe in large numbers of people protesting and that's a huge maybe):

The thing is, there are 5 billion people on Earth but far less operating systems. So, when they tell you "my way or the highway" while at the same time more products support their way, you'll eventually end up stuck somewhere in the past, like the old nut in the hut living on top of a mountain, while everyone is throwing their personal data to Microsoft and friends telling me that it's going to be ok because "the functionality provided is convenient". Which makes zero sense.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#474

Post by Filthy_casual »

9872 wrote: post #408
userbinator wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like my software knowing what I like and what I'm interested in. It makes my life easier, which is what computers were invented for. Philosophical question: is it really your life, if your software may be subtly persuading you in a different direction than what you would've taken if it hadn't been making the suggestions to influence you? There is no doubt it will make things easier for you if all you do is effectiv…

How's that different from listening to any other human you interact with? Is it somehow worse because it's a computer rather than a human? That's the kind of bigotry that gets you robot uprisings.

Are you saying that listening to what you have to say and writing what you have to say on wikipedia is the same thing?

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#475

Post by joonoro »

KeytarHero wrote: post #186
codeshaman wrote: post #150

I've never understood how people can truly believe that by checking (or unchecking) a checkbox their privacy will be fully protected. Especially since we're talking about a closed-source OS. I mean I cannot possibly verify what exactly goes on in the annals of the operating system and what happens to my data, where it is logged and where it is stored and how it is sent. So regardless of the settings, I always assume…

> I've never understood how people can truly believe that by checking (or unchecking) a checkbox their privacy is fully protected. You mean besides the fact that collecting personal data without your consent is illegal?

I guess you missed this part:

> Having grown up in a totalitarian state, that's the default way I think about this stuff and no amount of promises (except the source code which I can personally compile) can make me trust any 3rd party corporation.

He does not trust corporations or governments to act within the confines of the law.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#476

Post by livatlantis »

vacri wrote: post #412
briandear wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer Safari because I always thought it weird to let a company who's primary revenue is targeted advertising control my browser.

So instead you use a browser from a company whose goal is to control all your purchasing? Yesterday one of my friends bought a mac. He needed a credit card before he could install vim... vim needs brew, which needs xcode, which needs the istore, which needs an appleid, which needs (well, wants) a credit card on file.

Hmm, I don't think you need a credit card on file. You can select "None" as your payment method. This should allow you to download anything that's free (they'll still ask you for a credit card if you try to download something paid, of course). You installed XCode dev tools and you're set.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#477

Post by Sir_Substance »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #438
Sir_Substance wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That dataset contains languages and accents that are not relevant to me. It could easily be culled to a size where it's no compromise on language+region of birth alone.

It's multiple gigabytes for a single language and accent . I wasn't even talking about the full dataset across languages. You don't seem to understand the size requirements for getting a good dataset. Don't you think Microsoft would have loaded up the dataset if it was easy and cheap? They didn't have a desktop cloud-based recognition service until literally yesterday, so they had many, many years to include this mag…

>It's multiple gigabytes for a single language and accent.

I have 602 GB free on my first hard drive, 519 free on my second, 699 on my third, 1.06TB free on my forth, 405GB free on my fifth and 46 free on my 6th.

If Microsoft would be kind enough to release it to me, I think I can probably find a corner to squeeze it into.

>Don't you think Microsoft would have loaded up the dataset if it was easy and cheap?

No, I don't. Microsoft wants our voice data, it's extremely valuable to them. They've figured out that there's gullible people like you who will swallow the "it can't be moved onto a local computer" tale hook, line and sinker, and thus give it to them for free.

Why are you doing that? Grow some cynicism.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#478

Post by Sir_Substance »

pdabbadabba wrote: post #423
Sir_Substance wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you hold such a hard line stance on the moral correctness of revenge porn, I wonder? After all, if you don't want others to share the data, you shouldn't interact with them.

There is a clear moral distinction to be drawn between people who use Windows 10 knowing that it might be sharing some data with Microsoft, so its algorithms can streamline certain everyday tasks and those who maliciously upload their exes' sex tapes to the Internet without their consent. There are huge differences here on at least three crucial dimensions: intent of the sharer, the audience with whom it is shared, a…

This is specifically in the context of your windows 10 install uploading data about me, without you asking me if that's ok. My wifi password over wifi sense, for example.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#479

Post by ionised »

briandear wrote: post #378
batou wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google are just as bad. I've moved to a dumbphone and an IMAP mailbox at an independent company. I tried Android but that was pretty much impossible to keep control of (Moto G 2, Android 5.0)

Are you really this paranoid? You must be loads of fun at parties. It's interesting though because your British government is tracking your phone, your texts and watching you as you traverse London on CCTV. But luckily Microsoft doesn't know about your affinity for Yorkshire Terriers and love of Bass Ale. Don't get me wrong, I value privacy, but all things in moderation, including paranoia. I personally don't think m…

> I personally don't think most peopke's lives are that controversial to be so concerned about their privacy that they'll avoid the grid altogether lest some lewd fact trickle out amongs the billions of other lewd facts trickling out about everyone.

This sounds suspiciously like 'nothing to hide nothing to fear'.

I don't think batou is being overly paranoid at all. Especially not with the last year or more of news.

If anything, this is massive tech company overreach on the part of Microsoft, Apple and especially Google and Facebook.

More protection in law is what is needed, not for people to suck it up and accept it.

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