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Facebook completes construction of first full-scale aircraft, Aquila [video]

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Re: Facebook completes construction of first full-scale aircraft, Aquila [video]

#41

Post by _delirium »

baddox wrote: post #27
jeremy7600 wrote: post #7

Just, no. This is frightening on many levels. A facebook plane? To get people on facebook, right? To get them on the internet is secondary to Zuckerbergs goals here, lets be honest. A walled garden? Come on. It should be the whole internet or they shouldn't even bother. A walled garden, with no security protocols, with the intention of getting the entire world on facebook? Not cool.

How is the world with no Facebook plane in any way better than the world with a Facebook plane that provides Facebook access? If you don't want Facebook access, or you already have it, the two worlds are indistinguishable.

Depends on precisely where they're deployed, but this kind of thing can damage the local market and slow down the roll-out of normal infrastructure. A zero-cost "Facebook internet" is a partial substitute for real internet, which worsens the market for a local ISP trying to get off the ground. A kind of price-dumping, basically.

Re: Facebook completes construction of first full-scale aircraft, Aquila [video]

#42

Post by dropit_sphere »

dylanjermiah wrote: post #39
tdaltonc wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's not the "full internet" then it's not the internet. They shouldn't dress this up like a charitable project.

Some internet > no internet

I don't think that's true.

We can substitute (no internet + desire for internet) in for the right side, and I think that's better than (some internet + lessened desire for full internet)

Re: Facebook completes construction of first full-scale aircraft, Aquila [video]

#43

Post by bduerst »

baddox wrote: post #40
bduerst wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because internet.org's proxy server gives Facebook monopsonic control over the internet. Even ignoring the massive man-in-the-middle attack problems from running old phones on a proxy, Facebook is positioning themselves to control exclusive access to large number of users for websites. You could argue that Google already does this - but Google has competitors that users could switch to in a heartbeat. Internet.org us…

> Because internet.org's proxy server gives Facebook monopsonic control over the internet. You mean control over the internet access they're providing, that otherwise doesn't exist?

Are you okay with Comcast doing IP shaping and charging Netflix? If Comcast didn't exist, internet access wouldn't exist for many people.

That's why it's a false dichotomy. Internet.org could very easily be rate and data capped alternatives.

>connect the two thirds of the world that doesn’t have internet access. -Internet.org

This would give them monopsonic control over the internet.

Re: Facebook completes construction of first full-scale aircraft, Aquila [video]

#44

Post by qmalxp »

dropit_sphere wrote: post #42
dylanjermiah wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some internet > no internet

I don't think that's true. We can substitute (no internet + desire for internet) in for the right side, and I think that's better than (some internet + lessened desire for full internet)

Why don't we ask the people who currently have no internet what they'd prefer?

Re: Facebook completes construction of first full-scale aircraft, Aquila [video]

#45

Post by roymurdock »

There's an interesting phenomenon where people in developing countries begin to think that Facebook is the full extent of the internet:

Indonesians surveyed by Galpaya told her that they didn’t use the internet. But in focus groups, they would talk enthusiastically about how much time they spent on Facebook. Galpaya, a researcher (and now CEO) with LIRNEasia, a think tank, called Rohan Samarajiva, her boss at the time, to tell him what she had discovered. “It seemed that in their minds, the Internet did not exist; only Facebook,” he concluded. [1]

I feel extremely lucky and privileged to have grown up with an open internet, where there was at least some (diminishing) percent of websites that did not treat me like a product to be marketed to advertisers, prodding and analyzing, constantly gamifying and creeping ever-inwards on my privacy. I deactivated my account a few months ago because it felt like Facebook was taking more from me in terms of time and energy than I was gaining from it.

There is a huge benefit to bringing the connectivity of Facebook to developing countries and remote territories. Many people wouldn't be able to run businesses or keep in touch with family without it.

I just wish it didn't come with the strangely uncomfortable, sell-your-soul type of vibe that a project funded by publicly owned, for-profit venture usually generates. Especially when PR tries to spin it off as a charitable or humane act. Once you go public, it's about profit and it always will be. And a lot of the time, that's fine. Our country was founded and continues to run on capitalistic principles. Just don't hide behind any false pretenses and you'll have my support 100%.

[1] http://qz.com/333313/milliions-of-facebook-users-have-no-ide...

Re: Facebook completes construction of first full-scale aircraft, Aquila [video]

#46

Post by kunai »

jmstout wrote: post #23
jeremy7600 wrote: post #7

Just, no. This is frightening on many levels. A facebook plane? To get people on facebook, right? To get them on the internet is secondary to Zuckerbergs goals here, lets be honest. A walled garden? Come on. It should be the whole internet or they shouldn't even bother. A walled garden, with no security protocols, with the intention of getting the entire world on facebook? Not cool.

What if it's the other way around? What if the smart and passionate folks at Facebook really do just want to get the internet to the rest of the world, and this is the way they can justify doing so? They are a public company, after all. They have to fulfill their fiduciary responsibilities to shareholders, or at least appear to do so...

The fact that going public always tends to make a company's contributions to society less altruistic and turn the ethos of the company into "moar profitz foar de shaerhoaldurs" raises some fairly damning questions about our capital system and its tendency towards greed and stagnation.

Re: Facebook completes construction of first full-scale aircraft, Aquila [video]

#47

Post by [deleted] »

qmalxp wrote: post #44
dropit_sphere wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's true. We can substitute (no internet + desire for internet) in for the right side, and I think that's better than (some internet + lessened desire for full internet)

Why don't we ask the people who currently have no internet what they'd prefer?

[deleted]

Re: Facebook completes construction of first full-scale aircraft, Aquila [video]

#48

Post by bduerst »

_delirium wrote: post #41
baddox wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is the world with no Facebook plane in any way better than the world with a Facebook plane that provides Facebook access? If you don't want Facebook access, or you already have it, the two worlds are indistinguishable.

Depends on precisely where they're deployed, but this kind of thing can damage the local market and slow down the roll-out of normal infrastructure. A zero-cost "Facebook internet" is a partial substitute for real internet, which worsens the market for a local ISP trying to get off the ground. A kind of price-dumping, basically.

The "Tom Shoe's" effect: http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2014/10/economic...

Re: Facebook completes construction of first full-scale aircraft, Aquila [video]

#49

Post by forgetsusername »

roymurdock wrote: post #45

There's an interesting phenomenon where people in developing countries begin to think that Facebook is the full extent of the internet: Indonesians surveyed by Galpaya told her that they didn’t use the internet. But in focus groups, they would talk enthusiastically about how much time they spent on Facebook. Galpaya, a researcher (and now CEO) with LIRNEasia, a think tank, called Rohan Samarajiva, her boss at the tim…

>think that Facebook is the full extent of the internet:

My mother wanted to "get on the internet" because of the Facebook phenomenon a few years ago. Now she thinks Facebook is the full extent of the internet. Googling something or visiting a "homepage" is completely foreign to her. She'll search in the Facebook bar or ask questions in her feed if she's looking for information. Now she has a smartphone, and outside of texting and the odd call, only uses the Facebook app.

Obviously, her aptitude and usage is minimal, but it's an interesting phenomenon to behold.

Re: Facebook completes construction of first full-scale aircraft, Aquila [video]

#50

Post by dylanjermiah »

dropit_sphere wrote: post #42
dylanjermiah wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some internet > no internet

I don't think that's true. We can substitute (no internet + desire for internet) in for the right side, and I think that's better than (some internet + lessened desire for full internet)

You are assuming a lessened desire, why?

There are no perfect options, only trade offs. FB can provide a service, and if people don't use it, fine. But, let them decide.

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