I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10 • Hacker News Board

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#401

Post by graycat » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 1:05 AM UTC

onli wrote: post #23

graycat wrote: post #8

Okay. Good to know. So, when I decide to upgrade from Windows XP, I will install the legal DVD I have of Windows 7 and stay with that for years! No Windows 8, 10, etc. for me until Microsoft makes some fantastically strong and solid statements about compatibility with old software, security, and privacy.

If you seriously are still using Windows XP on an internet-connected device, it is not like your biggest worry is sending data to Microsoft.

Have anything specific except for Flash or macros for Word? There is the recent 15 or so year old problem, so far never seen in practice, having to do with fonts or some such.

Otherwise, what's insecure about XP? Or more secure about 7, 8, 8.1, or 10?

Sure, using XP means I'm not cool, but what about actual security?

Or are the crucial parts of XP really much different than those of 7? I doubt it. Until the XP support stopped, the same malware scanning and repair software worked for XP and 7.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#402

Post by themeekforgotpw » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 1:06 AM UTC

alyx wrote: post #314

Animats wrote: post #286

It looks like Microsoft has installed the "back door" that FBI Director Comey wanted.[1][2] That may be the real motivation behind these "features". The "backing up" of the local drive encryption key to Microsoft servers is one of the things the FBI specifically asks for. Any press reading this, ask Microsoft what communications they've had with the FBI regarding backdoors. [1] http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2…

I get this whole skepticism thing, but Microsoft has been backing up BitLocker keys in OneDrive since at least Windows 8. I have personally used the feature several times to recover my drive keys. There's no evidence here that Microsoft has installed a "back door" for the FBI.

Right but 'they reached too far during Windows 8' isn't an argument for reaching too far on Windows 10 (plus, Windows 8 really wasn't that long ago so it's still a pretty new policy).

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#403

Post by graycat » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 1:11 AM UTC

theg2 wrote: post #21

graycat wrote: post #8

Okay. Good to know. So, when I decide to upgrade from Windows XP, I will install the legal DVD I have of Windows 7 and stay with that for years! No Windows 8, 10, etc. for me until Microsoft makes some fantastically strong and solid statements about compatibility with old software, security, and privacy.

Worried about security and privacy...yet still uses Windows XP?

It looks like Windows users are not welcome on HN.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#404

Post by JoshTriplett » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 1:15 AM UTC

sudioStudio64 wrote: post #347

JoshTriplett wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two approaches: give someone a pile of power over you and trust them not to abuse it, or never give them that power in the first place. Given the repeated demonstrations of what can and does go wrong with the former...

One other thing. A "pile of power over you"...that's not helping, man. They have some commercial legal arrangement that you don't particularly care for. They can't come and kick you in the shin and torture you. They can't beat you to death and plant a weapon on you or anything. We are talking about an issue that is squarely within middle and upper class privilege in an industry that literally could not exist without…

Leaving aside the tangent in your comment (we were talking about governments having access to your encrypted data, not about Free Software)...

> Furthermore, if they did give your content to the Government because of a national security letter how is that abuse of power? Should they not comply with the law?

I fully expect that they would have little choice in doing so if they received a warrant from a government with jurisdiction over them. (Though I'd also be unsurprised if they did so even if asked without a warrant.) I don't want them to have anything to give if asked.

> I just think that the privacy absolutism that everyone keeps bringing up isn't reasonable.

Different people value their privacy differently. If you don't value it as much, feel free to trade it for things you consider more valuable. Don't assume everyone else wants to make the same trade you do, though.

I'm not advocating absolutism. You should be able to have as much or as little privacy as you want, which may even mean different amounts of privacy in different contexts.

> Power is a boot on your neck. This is more of an inconvenience.

The government having full access to the contents of your encrypted drive is an "inconvenience"? I'd hate to know what you consider an abuse of privacy, then.

The whole point of encryption is to keep unauthorized people from having access to your data.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#405

Post by userbinator » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 1:18 AM UTC

phjesusthatguy3 wrote: post #182

MichaelGG wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah there should definitely be a "Hey Cortana, off the record,..." query mode. I'm a bit conflicted now. My girls are 7 & 9 and they've been using Microsoft Accounts. With the final Win10 build having all this (none of these settings worked a few months ago), it looks like I've got a lot of reading and explaining to do for them.

If you don't have any Windows-only applications keeping your younger-than-double-digit children on Windows, well then now is your chance to put them on anything-other-than-Windows. My own children are still using computers with Windows 7. They play Spore (Windows only), Sims 3 (Windows only) Minecraft (Java, so playable anywhere), Osu! (no idea, really), and a couple of other games. I have no intention of upgrading W…

Have you looked at Linux with WINE? That could be a good transition from Windows into, eventually, pure Linux.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#406

Post by graycat » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 1:20 AM UTC

2xlbuds wrote: post #32

graycat wrote: post #8

Okay. Good to know. So, when I decide to upgrade from Windows XP, I will install the legal DVD I have of Windows 7 and stay with that for years! No Windows 8, 10, etc. for me until Microsoft makes some fantastically strong and solid statements about compatibility with old software, security, and privacy.

Their commitment to compatibility with old software was what crippled Windows in the first place.

Depends on how old. What I'm running and like would not have run on Windows 3.1 or PC/DOS but did run on Windows NT SP3 and Windows 2000.

But maybe some of that software would have run into problems on Vista.

Maybe Microsoft wants to assume that I will do my typing into Word or Outlook or Excel. No I won't. I type into my favorite text editor KEDIT. I keep my e-mail in files maintained with KEDIT and use Outlook only to send and receive, that is, handle the POP3 interactions. Maybe Microsoft believes that, sure, I will do my word whacking with Word. No I won't; I use Knuth's TeX and, then, PDF.

Microsoft thinks I like their efforts at GUIs -- I hate nearly all GUI efforts and make heavy use of command lines in text windows. The command lines run scripts I wrote.

I make relatively little and light use of the features of XP and still less use of Microsoft's applications. So, my security is not very vulnerable to any remaining security holes in XP.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#407

Post by thaumaturgy » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 1:32 AM UTC

npizzolato wrote: post #357

thaumaturgy wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hell, look at this very thread on HN. There are people further upthread essentially saying, "Whatever, I like it because it's convenient." I have adopted a passive stance on privacy and security: I stay up-to-date on news in this area, I choose for myself products and systems that minimally increase my risk, and I will answer questions from clients or other people. But, I won't evangelize it. Most people really just…

> Hell, look at this very thread on HN. There are people further upthread essentially saying, "Whatever, I like it because it's convenient." Is that so ridiculous a concept? People routinely trade privacy for convenience. Sending my location to Google through their maps is ridiculously convenient. Getting around using public transportation, especially in a city I'm unfamiliar with, would be a pretty awful experience…

Yeah, I don't really think of people with different priorities as "ignorant". I get that there are tradeoffs, it's the same deal with network security.

I'm a little ... frustrated, disappointed, bothered? ... though at the number of people that don't seem to consider at all the consequences of where information systems are headed. It's one thing to look at the benefits and the consequences and say, "OK, I'm willing to trade information on my position in exchange for realtime updated traffic flows and generally perfect maps and directions and nearby points of interest." I totally get that. It's not a choice I've made -- I remember getting around before GPS was everywhere -- but I can shrug and empathize and understand the decision.

But, "meh, I don't really care about this news, I just want more convenience" ... that bothers me a bit.

Unfortunately, I really can't think of any way to convince anyone else they should be bothered. I could cite historical cases where that hasn't worked out so well, I could dream up fictional scenarios where it might not work out so well, I could point to more recent events where things like identity theft are costing some people years of their life to sort out. But, none of that really makes much of an impact. I don't think anybody who isn't bothered now will become bothered up until it affects them directly.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#408

Post by 9872 » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 1:35 AM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #400

freehunter wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Who wanted that for desktop computers or laptops? I did. Linux and OSX are still available for whoever wants them. You can stick with Windows 7 if you want, that's just fine. I like Cortana. I like my software knowing what I like and what I'm interested in. It makes my life easier, which is what computers were invented for. I can see why some people might not, and to be fair I use Linux on my work laptop because the…

I like my software knowing what I like and what I'm interested in. It makes my life easier, which is what computers were invented for. Philosophical question: is it really your life, if your software may be subtly persuading you in a different direction than what you would've taken if it hadn't been making the suggestions to influence you? There is no doubt it will make things easier for you if all you do is effectiv…

How's that different from listening to any other human you interact with? Is it somehow worse because it's a computer rather than a human? That's the kind of bigotry that gets you robot uprisings.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#409

Post by 9872 » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 1:39 AM UTC

Silhouette wrote: post #394

bpodgursky wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not your consent to give. If you tell me your name, I'm free to repeat that to whoever I want. If you aren't ok with public information being re-broadcasted, don't go outside.

If you aren't ok with public information being re-broadcasted, don't go outside. Rights and freedoms that you can only exercise by giving up any semblance of normal life are no rights and freedoms at all. The idea that the moment you step outside of your home or go on-line you forfeit any right to the slightest respect for your privacy and we should just accept this is silly. And if you think the only people who care…

So you agree that you have no such rights and freedoms. That seems like the practical view. The alternative is the path of craziness, filled with things like the "right to be forgotten".

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#410

Post by MaulingMonkey » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 1:41 AM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #400

freehunter wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Who wanted that for desktop computers or laptops? I did. Linux and OSX are still available for whoever wants them. You can stick with Windows 7 if you want, that's just fine. I like Cortana. I like my software knowing what I like and what I'm interested in. It makes my life easier, which is what computers were invented for. I can see why some people might not, and to be fair I use Linux on my work laptop because the…

I like my software knowing what I like and what I'm interested in. It makes my life easier, which is what computers were invented for. Philosophical question: is it really your life, if your software may be subtly persuading you in a different direction than what you would've taken if it hadn't been making the suggestions to influence you? There is no doubt it will make things easier for you if all you do is effectiv…

> Philosophical question: is it really your life, if your software may be subtly persuading you in a different direction than what you would've taken if it hadn't been making the suggestions to influence you?

No less so than if your friends, family, coworkers, and society at large may be subtly persuading you in a different direction than what you would've taken if they hadn't been making the suggestions to influence you.

Does only the hermit truly own his own life?

> There is no doubt it will make things easier for you if all you do is effectively accept and follow everything others want you to with no resistance.

While that may be a danger to keep in mind, that's not what's being suggested. In fact, I'd argue much the opposite is being suggested.

Instead of being told what we want and adapting to our corporate overlords, would it not be preferable to communicate what we want, and have the companies adapt to us instead? To service our wants and needs?