Live data from Hacker News

The Capacitor Plague

deadprogrammer.com

21–30 of 50 posts

Re: The Capacitor Plague

#21
post #7

Electrolytic caps typically have low lifespans compared to other types of caps, especially over larger temp ranges.. even with proper construction. When I use to do design for circuits that needed a long lifetime I would really question any use of electrolytic caps.

what would you use? tantalums? ive have the joy of recovering old equipment with dried tant caps on the power rails. (23 of 'em!) maybe tants are made better these days...

Re: The Capacitor Plague

#22
post #21
post #7

Electrolytic caps typically have low lifespans compared to other types of caps, especially over larger temp ranges.. even with proper construction. When I use to do design for circuits that needed a long lifetime I would really question any use of electrolytic caps.

what would you use? tantalums? ive have the joy of recovering old equipment with dried tant caps on the power rails. (23 of 'em!) maybe tants are made better these days...

In some cases you can use ceramic capacitors instead of electrolytic ones. I've done this exactly because I don't trust electrolytic capacitors to be anything more than big and cheap.

Re: The Capacitor Plague

#24
For about 6-9 months in 2006 We had a series of Dell Optiplex GX 270s that had a remarkable failure rate - close to 60% of our systems failed. We knew that Dell must have been having a tough time, when the FIRST question they asked on a support call was whether we saw any "Bulging Capacitors on the Motherboard" - I mean, not "Have you Tried Rebooting", or, "Have you tried powering down for 90 seconds", but "Do you have bulging capacitors."

I'll say this for Dell though - they fixed every last one of those systems within 4 hours of our call.

I have to wonder whether Large Manufacturing organizations are aware that there is a good chance that going with subpar capacitor manufactures will cost them, but do so anyways because of the amount of money they save.

Re: The Capacitor Plague

#25
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a different sort of ripple. Your big electrolytic capacitors are used in the AC/DC conversion where the rectified sine wave is smoothed into a constant voltage. | | | _ _ _ ===>> | | / \ / \ / \ / |-------------- +V---V---V---V- +--------------- The capacitors store energy during the peaks and return it during the troughs. The ripple is the current in and out of the capacitor which heats them and does "stuff-…

It looks like lifetime is specified in hours of life at a high temperature - e.g.: http://www.rubycon.co.jp/en/catalog/e_pdfs/aluminum/e_BXF.pd... Lifetime is specified at 10000hrs at 105deg C. As temperature decreases, lifetime appx doubles per 10deg C: http://www.low-esr.com/endurance.asp It looks like a cap rated at 4000h @ 105deg C should last around 60 years at 100deg F or so. Anecdotally I have a guitar amp mad…

Interestingly enough I have heard in a few places that there is a 'sweet spot' in terms of duty-cycle that extends the life of electrolytic caps... I would that that high-use electronics (or 'always-on' devices) probably miss that spot.

Re: The Capacitor Plague

#26
post #20
post #7

Electrolytic caps typically have low lifespans compared to other types of caps, especially over larger temp ranges.. even with proper construction. When I use to do design for circuits that needed a long lifetime I would really question any use of electrolytic caps.

what would you use? tantalums? ive have the joy of recovering old equipment with dried tant caps on the power rails. (23 of 'em!) maybe tants are made better these days...

argh. how does one delete comments? i refreshed by accident :(

Re: The Capacitor Plague

#27
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what would you use? tantalums? ive have the joy of recovering old equipment with dried tant caps on the power rails. (23 of 'em!) maybe tants are made better these days...

In some cases you can use ceramic capacitors instead of electrolytic ones. I've done this exactly because I don't trust electrolytic capacitors to be anything more than big and cheap.

for a PC switching power converters, such as in this article?

sooo...where are you buying these mystical 2200uF ceramic caps? :)

Re: The Capacitor Plague

#28

For about 6-9 months in 2006 We had a series of Dell Optiplex GX 270s that had a remarkable failure rate - close to 60% of our systems failed. We knew that Dell must have been having a tough time, when the FIRST question they asked on a support call was whether we saw any "Bulging Capacitors on the Motherboard" - I mean, not "Have you Tried Rebooting", or, "Have you tried powering down for 90 seconds", but "Do you ha…

How did they fix a hardware failure in 4 hours?

Telekinesis? Teleportation?

Is there something I'm not understanding?

Re: The Capacitor Plague

#29
post #23

So, for hardware manufacturers, is there any reliable way to identify good quality caps?

If you know that a cap is suspect, and the article mentions what are probably helpful sources like badcaps.net, then you can accelerate the aging process by running the board in question at 10-20% overvoltage in a temp chamber heated to 100C or whatever your design's edge case is. MBTF values assume nominal voltage and temp, so increasing this has the effect of decreasing the mean time. This is not 100% guaranteed, since you are tweaking parameters of a statistical formula, but you nevertheless stand a good chance of weeding out a particular brand/model cap if you test multiple units and compare the results to those from a control group. A past job did exactly this to qualify part substitutions, and this sort of testing is effectively a requirement for temp-sensitive parts like caps. We were able to successfully weed out bad caps with this testing.

Re: The Capacitor Plague

#30

For about 6-9 months in 2006 We had a series of Dell Optiplex GX 270s that had a remarkable failure rate - close to 60% of our systems failed. We knew that Dell must have been having a tough time, when the FIRST question they asked on a support call was whether we saw any "Bulging Capacitors on the Motherboard" - I mean, not "Have you Tried Rebooting", or, "Have you tried powering down for 90 seconds", but "Do you ha…

How did they fix a hardware failure in 4 hours? Telekinesis? Teleportation? Is there something I'm not understanding?

Enterprise customers can get hardware replacements same-day.
Post reply on HN