Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

blog.mozilla.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 311 posts

Re: Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

#61

Post by BinaryIdiot »

maratd wrote: post #31
BinaryIdiot wrote: post #19

I was pretty surprised when I installed Windows 10 and it changed to another default for my web browser. Even worse was it didn't reset the "do you want me as the default" in all of the other web browsers so I had to go and manually change settings. Microsoft Edge is pretty nice especially compared to IE but this default to Edge should have only occurred if your current default is IE.

To be fair, they reset all defaults. For images, video, everything. Google Chrome pops up a bar that takes you directly to the settings. It's literally two clicks to change it back. Microsoft should have preserved the defaults, but I think Google's solution is preferable to a complaint letter.

> To be fair, they reset all defaults. For images, video, everything.

For what it's worth I'm not a fan of upgrades working that way. Granted I could see where that is ideal but web browsers not so much.

> Google Chrome pops up a bar that takes you directly to the settings. It's literally two clicks to change it back.

See, Google Chrome never popped up a bar for me. I had to go into the Chrome settings which took me into the Windows 10 settings where I could then change the default app. I wonder why I didn't get that bar.

Re: Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

#62

Post by Freaky »

BinaryIdiot wrote: post #21
com2kid wrote: post #16

I just installed IE, I clicked on a URL in an email, I was asked which browser I wanted to use. IE was on top, but I do not remember what my previous default was. I was however asked to choose. I am not sure what other user experiences exist around this.

When I upgraded my default changed from Chrome to Edge. When I clicked on my first URL, also in an email, it did not give me any choices which was kinda frustrating. Opening Chrome also didn't give me the whole "Chrome is not your default; do you want it to be?" dialog.

When I upgraded it gave me a page showing me the new defaults it was about to apply, and gave me the option to skip it and keep what I was using before.

Went with the latter option and indeed, it's still all MPC-HC, foobar2000 and Opera.

Maybe it's because I was upgrading from 8 you were upgrading from 7? I recall some changes to how defaults were handled between them.

Re: Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

#63

Post by balls187 »

wvenable wrote: post #50
balls187 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, except not with Window 10, and for the browser--a keyy application for most people. You now have to go and mess with it before you can get on with your day.

Oh yeah, I agree. I just found the dig at Microsoft vs. Apple a bit disingenuous since Apple's biggest platform doesn't even let you change your browser at all.

Yeah, wasn't trying to dig at MSFT. Just giving reason why I switched from a PC to a Mac--in part because of frustratingly having to "manage" my computer, rather than using it as a tool to accomplish goals.

There is no denying that Apple is a closed ecosystem.

Re: Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

#64

Post by byuu »

verusfossa wrote: post #44

Mozilla hasn't made me very happy lately with their "choice" tactics. Resetting people's default search engine to Yahoo of all things on update was very opaque. Also the AMO signing fiasco, Pocket and Hello. Feels like an "It's only okay when we do it" kind of thing.

Yeah, this is the most "pot calling the kettle black" article I've seen all month. Let's see:

* no opt-out for Australis

* removal of tabs on bottom

* forced signed extensions

* removing option to not retain download history (unless you give up browsing history too)

* bundling of Hello

* bundling of Pocket (requires a lot of effort to disable)

* bundling of DRM web extensions

* bundling ads out of the box (can be disabled fairly easily)

* on and on ... I can't even keep track of it all anymore

Re: Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

#65

Post by akkartik »

verusfossa wrote: post #44

Mozilla hasn't made me very happy lately with their "choice" tactics. Resetting people's default search engine to Yahoo of all things on update was very opaque. Also the AMO signing fiasco, Pocket and Hello. Feels like an "It's only okay when we do it" kind of thing.

It's also disingenuous to call Mozilla a non-profit, given its wholly-owned for-profit subsidiary: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/governance/organizations. Used to be that mozilla.com was the homepage for the for-profit wing, but I see now that it just redirects to mozilla.org. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla doesn't mention the for-profit subsidiary either.

(I'm still a happy user of firefox. I just care about keeping them accountable.)

Re: Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

#66

Post by Spivak »

madars wrote: post #53
verusfossa wrote: post #44

Mozilla hasn't made me very happy lately with their "choice" tactics. Resetting people's default search engine to Yahoo of all things on update was very opaque. Also the AMO signing fiasco, Pocket and Hello. Feels like an "It's only okay when we do it" kind of thing.

Changing search engine for existing users was a very unfortunate bug, which got fixed ( https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1041571#answer-6... ). Of course, changing the default for new users is nothing to be ashamed of.

I mean, it should be but it seems as though most people have accepted it.

Re: Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

#67

Post by wvenable »

balls187 wrote: post #63
wvenable wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yeah, I agree. I just found the dig at Microsoft vs. Apple a bit disingenuous since Apple's biggest platform doesn't even let you change your browser at all.

Yeah, wasn't trying to dig at MSFT. Just giving reason why I switched from a PC to a Mac--in part because of frustratingly having to "manage" my computer, rather than using it as a tool to accomplish goals. There is no denying that Apple is a closed ecosystem.

I find the lack of customization in Apple products an exercise in frustration anytime I want to accomplish a goal. I don't think there is a fundamental difference in the platforms that you seem to think; they both have benefits and flaws depending on one's workflow. The question here is whether or not Windows 10 is another category altogether.

Re: Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

#68

Post by Lazare »

oso2k wrote: post #57
verusfossa wrote: post #44

Mozilla hasn't made me very happy lately with their "choice" tactics. Resetting people's default search engine to Yahoo of all things on update was very opaque. Also the AMO signing fiasco, Pocket and Hello. Feels like an "It's only okay when we do it" kind of thing.

I agree. And I extend that sentiment to their approach to Web Standards a few years ago too, like WebSQL [0] and NaCl [1], Dart [2]. That felt like NIH [3] or some other non-collaborative or ultra-competitive motivation on their part. Not a place of "speak for the Web". IMO, the choice of IndexedDB over WebSQL set the Web back 20 years. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_SQL_Database [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/w…

> IMO, the choice of IndexedDB over WebSQL set the Web back 20 years.

Yep. I recognise that this may not have been a winnable fight, but I absolutely judge the people who were on the other side.

WebSQL was a much better tech than IndexedDB. Was the dependence on Sqlite problematic? Sure. But Mozilla had the resources to make a pretty good try at fixing it; instead they refused to even implement it and gave us the relatively terrible IndexedDB instead. Which, in turn, Apple has refused to implement[1], and now here we are. Thanks Moz[2].

(I'm less concerned about NaCL and Dart, because it's less clear to me that these were obviously superior technologies that obviously needed cross-browser adaption. You're certainly right that the pattern is suggestive though.)

[1]: Yeah, I know, they claim to have implemented it. Anyone who's tried to use their implementation will recognise this claim as a subtle joke. On us.

[2]: Their blog post justifying themselves[3] has not aged well. I especially love the bit where they say IndexedDB is better than WebSQL because it has better "developer aesthetics", as if anyone is actually casually coding against IndexedDB without using some sort of wrapper or compatibility layer. Or as if anyone actually likes the IndexedDB syntax and API.

[3]: https://hacks.mozilla.org/2010/06/beyond-html5-database-apis...

Re: Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

#70

Post by iuzyyce »

verusfossa wrote: post #44

Mozilla hasn't made me very happy lately with their "choice" tactics. Resetting people's default search engine to Yahoo of all things on update was very opaque. Also the AMO signing fiasco, Pocket and Hello. Feels like an "It's only okay when we do it" kind of thing.

Agreed. The only time I've used Firefox's customize mode is to remove crap they keep insisting on putting in my toolbar. I think it's pretty clear that the only reason Mozilla is complaining about this is because they think it will hurt their bottom line.
Post reply on HN