Live data from Hacker News

I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

jonathan.porta.codes

271–280 of 596 posts

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#271

I've never understood how people can truly believe that by checking (or unchecking) a checkbox their privacy will be fully protected. Especially since we're talking about a closed-source OS. I mean I cannot possibly verify what exactly goes on in the annals of the operating system and what happens to my data, where it is logged and where it is stored and how it is sent. So regardless of the settings, I always assume…

There is some risk but it's not high. Microsoft is a huge, rich company. If it leaked they were violating their own privacy policy that blatantly, there would be the mother of all class action lawsuits.

There would federal CFAA, Economic Espionage Act, etc., investigations plus antitrust abuse investigations.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#272
post #248

It's too bad that microsoft continues to be villainized when companies like Facebook and Google have social networks and browsers respectively that have similar practices that users are even more unaware of when they use them. Computers these days have become thin clients for browsers (especially for the typical consumer). Except for the occasional open of Word or Excel, you're in your web browser browsing the web an…

Facebook and Google don't log all of my keystrokes across my entire operating system. As far as I know, Google doesn't even log keystrokes within the browser.

Facebook does for status messages: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131215/23260825572/faceb...

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#273
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook and Google don't log all of my keystrokes across my entire operating system. As far as I know, Google doesn't even log keystrokes within the browser.

How do you believe auto-suggest works?

Auto-suggest in the address bar? That's a far cry from logging every keystroke I make in the entire browser.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#274
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook and Google don't log all of my keystrokes across my entire operating system. As far as I know, Google doesn't even log keystrokes within the browser.

Facebook does for status messages: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131215/23260825572/faceb...

Again, logging my keystrokes in a single text input field is vastly different from logging all of my keystrokes across the board.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#275
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook and Google don't log all of my keystrokes across my entire operating system. As far as I know, Google doesn't even log keystrokes within the browser.

How do you believe auto-suggest works?

Leprechauns, consulting an oracle, and simultaneously typing at Google HQ.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#276
post #187
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine the resource costs would be too high to really make that worthwhile. The choice is probably between bad privacy settings, a bad personal assistant, or bad battery life and disk usage. Microsoft chose the option that would likely upset the smallest group of people.

I don't buy it. My Windows 10 machines will be Ivy Bridge, Broadwell, and soon Skylake-powered desktop processors running with gobs of excess computing capacity. Voice recognition should be feasible with this hardware, as it has been in the past with Windows 7 and Windows 8's often-ignored voice transcription feature. Furthermore, even if the performance were slightly worse, I would gladly sacrifice some performance…

It actually does run locally with access to API's that you authorize. Just saying...

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#277
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook and Google don't log all of my keystrokes across my entire operating system. As far as I know, Google doesn't even log keystrokes within the browser.

How do you believe auto-suggest works?

You're comparing Microsoft's request to send ALL typing and "inking" (I assume that means touch and stylus events) to Google logging search terms?

No matter how you look at it, essentially reserving the right to install a key logger on your computer is unprecedented.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#278
post #165
post #20

Windows is now essentially a personalized, cloud-based operating system with the primary interface as a personal assistant, so I expected to see all these things as defaults. The advanced features just couldn't work without it. I'm glad there's at least an opt-out, but I do think that Windows needs an OS-wide incognito mode, just a simple switch to record or not record data. I generally use that on my browser for whe…

"The advanced features just couldn't work without it." I don't know much about Windows 10, so I'm curious what features you are referring to that require heavy tracking like this.

Skepticism of heavy tracking is absolutely justified, so I want to address that first. I've read Richard Stallman's blog for the last 15 years, and he has had a lot of good thoughts about it. I think everyone should have access to privacy, but I don't think everything should be private.

Games are a good example. Nobody would expect a baseball player to object to tracking statistics. That's a big part of what makes the game. Online gaming is the same way. Tracking achievements adds to the fun for a lot of people.

But there are also larger social issues where tracking can be beneficial. We live in a world with a lot of diversity and an increasing amount of information. People get overwhelmed and tend to revert to tribal thinking, attacking anything that doesn't fit their group's perspective. I don't know if people on their own could ever get over this type of behavior in a world that's impossible to keep up with without taking mental shortcuts and relying on summaries of what's happening.

Personalized deep learning is an attempt to create a relatively neutral arbiter of all this information, distill it into something useful based not only on the user's behavior but also the aggregate of everyone's behavior. The algorithms don't just learn from what you like but have the potential to uncover interests and information that you might never be able to access outside your bubble.

Cortana brings that kind of aggregate information gathering to your desktop. It's an early example, and it needs lots and lots of data to learn, and the more diverse the data set it can analyze, the closer it can be to doing its job of feeding relevant information.

Windows 10 is also meant to be an Internet of Things OS. Lots of companies are working on connected devices that depend on syncing with your account. A common example for today is telling Cortana to remind you to pick up milk when you're at the store. The reminder goes to your account, and when your phone detects you're at the store, it reminds you to pick up milk.

Of course, there are people who are going to try to use this to sell you things, but that's always been the case. The hope of people working on these things is that it can bring you actually relevant suggestions instead of just the products with the largest advertising budgets. Old advertising models were very centralized and only the largest ones could really win. Personalized advertising might be able to bring the smaller but more relevant products to your attention.

Personally, I don't like advertising, and I'm not especially excited about this part of it, but that's definitely the monetary angle for it. The part that does excite me is the possibility that we can start to break down some of the communication barriers between people, get people outside of their bubbles, and bring relevant information to people based on large trends instead of isolated social groups.

There's plenty to be skeptical about here. Money tends to push things in directions that only benefit the ones with money. Microsoft and all the other IoT companies have a lot to prove before their products can be considered actually relevant for people. There's a good chance most of them will be no better than the old way of doing things. But there's a lot of potential there too.

Privacy should always be an option, but having a public online life can be good for people too.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#279
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Windows is now essentially a personalized, cloud-based operating system with the primary interface as a personal assistant." Who wanted that for desktop computers or laptops? This is not going to fly with business customers. Microsoft has already bombed twice in the business space, with Windows Vista and Windows 8. This looks like another bomb. Windows 7 is still pretty good, and it will probably be the main Microso…

Absolutely no one wanted it. No one asked for it. We were spun a load of marketing disguised as listening and attention. This turned out to be exactly what Microsoft wanted which was another aggressive move against customers both business and consumer. Despite all this the noise and confusion and dubious love for the products is shining out of the arses of every non technical news source. What did we expect? I've lef…

You were always free to not use new MS operating systems. Nobody forced you to make any MS accounts or use Window 8,10 or whatever, so if you installed Windows 8 and didn't like it, that doesn't make MS evil, just don't use it. Anyone who inclined to use CentOS as their daily driver probably was never going to like MS OS's anyway. You probably only ever installed it just to find out what you hate about it.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#280

I find it shocking how people readily accept Google's far worse policies, and yet are so concerned about an easy opt out. For instance, in Android, Google tracks with GPS accuracy your whereabouts constantly. This isn't just what IP your desktop is attached to. Furthermore, there is no prompt telling you this happens with a very easy way of undoing. In fact even if you knew about this it is very hard to find a way to…

> Secondly, Chrome send every website you visit to their servers to be logged.

Well, I thought Google already tracked you whichever browser you use, via its advertising networks.

However, it does offer good control and opt-out cookies for the (whatever) 0.0001 percent of people who find out about this and actually give a damn.

Post reply on HN