I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10 • Hacker News Board

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#101

Post by elektromekatron » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 6:29 PM UTC

ewzimm wrote: post #20

Windows is now essentially a personalized, cloud-based operating system with the primary interface as a personal assistant, so I expected to see all these things as defaults. The advanced features just couldn't work without it. I'm glad there's at least an opt-out, but I do think that Windows needs an OS-wide incognito mode, just a simple switch to record or not record data. I generally use that on my browser for whe…

Windows is now essentially a personalized, cloud-based operating system with the primary interface as a personal assistant

They should have called it "Clippy's Revenge"

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#102

Post by mynameisvlad » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 6:29 PM UTC

moron4hire wrote: post #47

wvenable wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use a local account on Windows 8 (which is pretty much configured to run like Windows 7) but that completely keeps me from being able to use the Windows Store and therefore any of those universal apps. I'm sure if I choose the same option in Windows 10 a large part of the OS will be completely closed off.

Not that you're missing out, not being able to access the universal apps. Hell, Skype even pulled a 180, got rid of their universal app and went back to regular, ol' desktop apps.

Uh, no they didn't. The Universal app is still there and was updated a month ago. They've always had both Universal and Desktop apps available, especially since there are people on Win7 and below that wouldn't be able to run the Universal app.

Edit: Apparently they deprecated it inside the app itself, not in the store. I've kept the message above.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#103

Post by vitd » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 6:30 PM UTC

iambitjelly wrote: post #51

I dont' know why so many people are surprised by the Cortana data vacuum. Doesn't Siri send everything you say to it to Apple or a "trusted partner"? Why would Cortana be any different? The keylogger and Start menu ads are just creepy though. I shouldn't have to opt-out of targeted ads INSIDE MY OS.

There's also a difference in perception between Apple's "trusted partners" and MS and Google's "trusted partners". Since MS and Google make a large amount of money from selling you to others, I just instantly assume that they're sharing my data with advertisers. Since I pay for all my Apple stuff and they repeatedly say that they don't sell my data, I assume that "trusted partners" means companies they've outsourced speech recognition to, or whatever, and that it won't ever be used for tracking or advertising.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#104

Post by mahouse » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 6:30 PM UTC

I'm not sure, but I think Windows 8 had the same options and they were on by default too.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#105

Post by chc » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 6:31 PM UTC

jimrandomh wrote: post #52

"Send typing and inking data to Microsoft to improve the recognition and suggestion platform" "Typing data" sounds like keylogging. If it's what it sounds like, that's really emphatically not okay; that would include all passwords and the contents of all emails sent. Would someone with actual knowledge care to chime in and say what data is actually sent? If it turns out that Windows 10 really is sending keystrokes to…

Based on the wording, it sounds like it's autocomplete data — "I suggested this for what they typed or handwrote, but they chose this instead."

If so, it probably wouldn't include passwords (since password fields intentionally disable this kind of feature), and it shouldn't include the full contents of emails, just telemetry on how they were typed.

But Microsoft really ought to have explanations so we don't have to guess, and they ought to know that. I'm assuming this is on their itinerary and the documentation department is just lagging.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#106

Post by sudioStudio64 » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 6:34 PM UTC

the8472 wrote: post #99

sudioStudio64 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are completely free to not use it. I'm not trying to be a smart-a here. There have never been more options for end users. You aren't signing away your rights to privacy without due process...that's your part to evaluate. "Is this useful enough to me that it's worth agreeing to this?" Also, this is version dependent. The TOS for an individual consumer is different than a developer with an MSDN license, and a busin…

you're going off tangents here. Obviously the premise of this discussion is that you install their software. IF you install windows 10 THEN you agree to their terms of service which includes granting them access to your private files.

I'm going off on a tangent?

YOU installed their software. You didn't have to. No one forced you to. Don't like the TOS? Call them and schedule a meeting to talk about coming up with a different arrangement...they will want money for that, but you can certainly have it.

The truth is that there is jack all that I or anyone else can say to you that would change your mind about any of this.

Also, I'm not willing to grant that you are reading the TOS correctly...so there's that point. No offense, but its pretty dense and things that are probably pretty reasonable come across as a privacy invasion to people that are really sensitive on the subject.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#107

Post by dimino » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 6:35 PM UTC

I'll bet everything in my pocket that Windows 10 does not keylog every stroke and send it back to Microsoft servers for storage.

It's intellectually dishonest to think that's what s going on, because it ruins the conversation about what they're actually doing.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#108

Post by mynameisvlad » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 6:36 PM UTC

iambitjelly wrote: post #92

chadzawistowski wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do start menu ads look like?

This: https://twitter.com/GazTheJourno/status/626736454610366465 According to these screen shots, this guy got skincare product ads in his start menu. I can't verify because I noped out of anything that smelled like ads right from the get-go. Also, classic shell. !!!EDIT: I know it looks shopped, which is why I said I couldn't verify it. Windows Store app ads are quite real though.

That ad doesn't really fit the grid in the start menu, which seems odd to me. Microsoft was fairly gung ho about the grid in the Win8 start screen, and I'd assume here too since it's supposed to reflow automatically in between tablet and desktop mode.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#109

Post by sudioStudio64 » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 6:36 PM UTC

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #18

sudioStudio64 wrote: post #3

Of course you did. Large companies have no vested interest in building systems that do the "right thing" for you as defined by tech types like us who are arguably more sensitive on this subject than most people. They are building services that take your information and try to do something interesting enough with it to make it worthwhile...and why is it on by default? Because they want to make money off of the new fea…

Granted most individuals may not be concerned with these intrusions-by-design, but businesses dealing with sensitive information - or who simply have a vested interest in security - may see this as a reason to forgo the Microsoft Office suite altogether, which is one of Microsoft's few stable revenue streams after all these years.

businesses actually can get a very different deal when it comes to data "sovereignty" issues.

it's really consumers who have the least leverage. If you want an arrangement where your data is encrypted with keys that you store in a tamer proof hardware module you can. It's priced differently, but you certainly can have that. (It's not all that expensive in the scheme of things.)

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#110

Post by moron4hire » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 6:37 PM UTC

mynameisvlad wrote: post #102

moron4hire wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that you're missing out, not being able to access the universal apps. Hell, Skype even pulled a 180, got rid of their universal app and went back to regular, ol' desktop apps.

Uh, no they didn't. The Universal app is still there and was updated a month ago. They've always had both Universal and Desktop apps available, especially since there are people on Win7 and below that wouldn't be able to run the Universal app. Edit: Apparently they deprecated it inside the app itself, not in the store. I've kept the message above.

All of my installations told me "we're discontinuing this app, here, download the desktop app."