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I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

jonathan.porta.codes

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Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#41

Post by talmand »

koenigdavidmj wrote: post #28
wvenable wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and why is it on by default? Because Cortana would be useless without it and that's a big user-facing feature of Windows 10.

How about a box that shows up the first time you try to invoke Cortana, asking if you want to turn this feature on.

I made a similar suggestion in a somewhat related topic concerning browsers and was told this is bad UX so it shouldn't be done. Informing people of what's going on and giving them power over their choices is bad UX. Somehow.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#44

Post by the8472 »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #11
sudioStudio64 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a new one on me. Bitlocker keys can be backed up to onedrive if you want, but you can also store them in a TPM or a smartcard (physical or virtual).

See http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2015/07/29/wind-nos/ ; "Windows 10 automatically encrypts the drive its installed on and generates a BitLocker recovery key. That’s backed up to your OneDrive account." Together with the ToS: "We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good…

> We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including [...] files in private folders

I don't see any language that restricts that to their cloud offerings. It's in the privacy statement that covers windows too.

So unless i'm missing something they're granting themselves the right to disclose your harddrive to government agencies or their own legal department on a good-faith basis.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#45

Post by sudioStudio64 »

koenigdavidmj wrote: post #28
wvenable wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and why is it on by default? Because Cortana would be useless without it and that's a big user-facing feature of Windows 10.

How about a box that shows up the first time you try to invoke Cortana, asking if you want to turn this feature on.

There are dialogs and UI hints that come up when the service is first accessed. Is it enough to placate someone who is seriously concerned with online privacy...probably not. It meets the minimum requirements to not be too sneaky.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#46

Post by moron4hire »

This looks like all the same sort of stuff Google defaults you into on Android. I mean, not that it's any better because of that, but this is the state of things now. You're not going to find better unless you install FOSS. Unless you're ready to go full-in on one of the BSDs or a Linux-that-isn't-Ubuntu, navigating the waters of figuring out how to get a phone that has all the features you want with such an OS, figuring out how to do all the work you need to do, then you're in for a penny, in for a pound.

Apple, Google, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, the FBI, NSA, CIA, DHS, they all have my data already. Thanks to OPM, the Russians and Chinese probably have my data now, too. What does it matter if Microsoft has it? They probably already have it. Maybe it's even better to make sure everyone has my data, rather than allowing it to be used as a competitive advantage by one or a small set of corporations. Cat's out of the bag. Horses have left the stable. Whatever other metaphors you want to throw in there.

So decide, and decide now: either go full-in on FOSS, or shut up and eat your cookie. Otherwise, this exercise hasn't been about privacy, it's been about anti-Bill-Gates-and-Steve-Ballmer-Microsoft sentiment.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#47

Post by moron4hire »

wvenable wrote: post #10
task_queue wrote: post #6

The idea of an operating system integrating with services like that still bothers me even though it is done in Mac OS X and Ubuntu.

I use a local account on Windows 8 (which is pretty much configured to run like Windows 7) but that completely keeps me from being able to use the Windows Store and therefore any of those universal apps. I'm sure if I choose the same option in Windows 10 a large part of the OS will be completely closed off.

Not that you're missing out, not being able to access the universal apps. Hell, Skype even pulled a 180, got rid of their universal app and went back to regular, ol' desktop apps.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#48

Post by koenigdavidmj »

talmand wrote: post #41
koenigdavidmj wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about a box that shows up the first time you try to invoke Cortana, asking if you want to turn this feature on.

I made a similar suggestion in a somewhat related topic concerning browsers and was told this is bad UX so it shouldn't be done. Informing people of what's going on and giving them power over their choices is bad UX. Somehow.

UX people can't seem to agree on much of anything. On environments where permissions must be explicitly granted (like iOS), I've seen articles saying to go both ways: "ask for everything right at the start", and "ask immediately before use".

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#49

Post by sudioStudio64 »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #11
sudioStudio64 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a new one on me. Bitlocker keys can be backed up to onedrive if you want, but you can also store them in a TPM or a smartcard (physical or virtual).

See http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2015/07/29/wind-nos/ ; "Windows 10 automatically encrypts the drive its installed on and generates a BitLocker recovery key. That’s backed up to your OneDrive account." Together with the ToS: "We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good…

OK. What I'm trying to say is that backing up to OneDrive is optional. You get the choice. You can protect the key with a TPM or a smart card...It's not an all or nothing thing. You have options there, if you are interested.

The other thing is that it sounds like a lot of privacy minded people can't trust BitLocker despite any number of assurances from MS or code reviews by third parties. AND THAT'S OK. Use something else.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that if you are an admin or just operate your own AD installation you can store the key in Active Directory. The behavior is version specific, I think.

EDIT EDIT: I believe that the TOS you are talking about is specifically referring to online services. I don't have time to stop and read it right now, but I think that you are misconstruing the intent.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#50

Post by MichaelGG »

ewzimm wrote: post #20

Windows is now essentially a personalized, cloud-based operating system with the primary interface as a personal assistant, so I expected to see all these things as defaults. The advanced features just couldn't work without it. I'm glad there's at least an opt-out, but I do think that Windows needs an OS-wide incognito mode, just a simple switch to record or not record data. I generally use that on my browser for whe…

Yeah there should definitely be a "Hey Cortana, off the record,..." query mode.

I'm a bit conflicted now. My girls are 7 & 9 and they've been using Microsoft Accounts. With the final Win10 build having all this (none of these settings worked a few months ago), it looks like I've got a lot of reading and explaining to do for them.

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