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Why Can't Streaming Services Get Classical Music Right?

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Re: Why Can't Streaming Services Get Classical Music Right?

#81

Post by rspeer »

dogma1138 wrote: post #77
rspeer wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've gotten a little better at exact matches, but in the "BWV 588" example, you still have to scroll past a screenful of the Goldberg Variations. Sure, the Goldberg Variations are great, but that's not what I asked for. That screenshot also highlights the problem that shitty performances rank highly in the search. Kevin Bowyer will probably play an organ piece with much more skill and subtlety than "Mutant Orchest…

Don't search by a pure opus or a BWV number then if you search Canzona in D + Insert Performance Details you'll find it. Never had an issue finding what i wanted, i didn't mind to have to scroll and i treat Spotify's search just as i treat Google's search, the secret to finding stuff on Google is to figure out what the 100000 idiots that searched for the same thing before you actually searched for before ending up cl…

I've spent a while making a Bach playlist, so yes, I do have these things basically bookmarked by now. But it sounds like you're telling me that search is easy as long as I know exactly what I want to find.

The problem with classical metadata is when you know the work you want to find, and you want a quality performance, but you don't necessarily know:

- What "title" it was given. Titles are neither consistent nor unique. You're telling me with confidence that you can search for "Canzona in D", which is ridiculous, it only finds performances that used that particular mix of English and Italian to title a piece written by a German speaker.

- Whether a particular recommended performance is going to be available on Spotify

- Whether you can click on the "album" to get the rest of the movements, or whether you just found a standalone track

- Whether the "artist" is going to list the composer, the performance group, or one famous performer

So it takes a lot of trial and error. I know I need to do some work to search, but they're not even trying to put the appropriate data in. It's like browsing a bookstore that's sorted by color.

The problem here is that all of Spotify is built around the "title", "artist", and "album" tags, which were originally added to MP3s as a way to catalogue popular music from about 1950 to 2000, and none of which are a consistent way to organize classical music. Classical music is organized by composer, work, movement, arrangement, and a whole lot of performers.

If you get deeper into listening to classical music, you will find that there are choices besides "Bach from the Dead" and "dreadful orchestras from the Soviet days", and you'll also find that the metadata situation is not as rosy as you make it.

Re: Why Can't Streaming Services Get Classical Music Right?

#82

Post by dhowden »

vermooten wrote: post #37

I had exactly this prblem when I signed up to Qobuz yesterday. Just as the author did, I typed in 'Mozart magic Flute' and got all kind of crap back in no specific order. They did however allow me to select a specific CD and sort of 'save' that. 'Brahms Clarinet' didnt do well at all. Metatdata designed for pop / rock doesn't work for classical. I cancelled my Qobuz sub after a few hours on the basis that they didn't…

The "Album-Song" organisational metaphor just doesn't work for classical music. However they could do quite a lot with the current metadata: grouping tracks using prefixes etc.

One of my biggest gripes is that searches often return individual "songs", whereas for classical music you're generally looking for something that spans multiple tracks (and so what to see more context in the search output).

Re: Why Can't Streaming Services Get Classical Music Right?

#83

Post by porker »

rspeer wrote: post #81
dogma1138 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't search by a pure opus or a BWV number then if you search Canzona in D + Insert Performance Details you'll find it. Never had an issue finding what i wanted, i didn't mind to have to scroll and i treat Spotify's search just as i treat Google's search, the secret to finding stuff on Google is to figure out what the 100000 idiots that searched for the same thing before you actually searched for before ending up cl…

I've spent a while making a Bach playlist, so yes, I do have these things basically bookmarked by now. But it sounds like you're telling me that search is easy as long as I know exactly what I want to find. The problem with classical metadata is when you know the work you want to find, and you want a quality performance, but you don't necessarily know: - What "title" it was given. Titles are neither consistent nor un…

Are your classical playlists public? I've given up looking through Spotify's catalogue for the reasons you outline.

Re: Why Can't Streaming Services Get Classical Music Right?

#84

Post by sneak »

stinos wrote: post #26
sneak wrote: post #6

"The other huge issue, in terms of classical streaming, is sound quality. It stands to reason that picky, "elitist" classical music fans would also be picky about audio standards as well. And while it's entirely true that bit rates don't matter one whit when you're listening through standard-issue earbuds, most of the best-established current services don't emphasize great audio quality. Mahler's epic, sweeping Fifth…

This bogus and unfounded claim calls the rest of his expert assertions into question. Let's not overgeneralize. One bogus claim (about sound quality) does not render the rest of the assertions (mainly about metadata and how accurate information is missing on streaming services) faulty. On topic: as others mentioned, don't you think some types of music lends itself better to being recognized as 160kbps vs lossless tha…

> Let's not overgeneralize. One bogus claim (about sound quality) does not render the rest of the assertions (mainly about metadata and how accurate information is missing on streaming services) faulty.

No, but one bogus claim asserted strongly from a clear position of ignorance calls the likelihood of his accuracy into question.

It's not an overgeneralization, just a simple matter of credibility. I am less likely to believe he is properly objective in evaluating other criteria as he has completely failed to be objective or rigorous in evaluating this one.

Re: Why Can't Streaming Services Get Classical Music Right?

#85

Post by mojotoad »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #38

This sounds like a problem that could be easily solved through crowd sourcing. 1. Set up your metadata format with enough fields and flexibility. 2. Let your users help you fix your metadata, wiki style. 3. Profit

http://musicbrainz.org/

Re: Why Can't Streaming Services Get Classical Music Right?

#86

Post by brerlapn »

rspeer wrote: post #54
dogma1138 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never had issues listening to classical music on Spotify, on Ultra the sound quality isn't an issue, neither is finding what exactly you wan't since you can find specific performances by an orchestra or even a specific conductor.

The problem isn't listening to it once you can find it, the problem is finding it. If you're looking for a particular work to listen to, not just the most popular thing by that composer, Spotify gives you no way to browse by work. You can either try to guess which translation of the title they used, or you can type the number the piece is identified by, and in both cases it will usually autocorrect you to something m…

Rhapsody allows search by composer. Search "Gustav Mahler" and you get all of the recordings of his work, regardless of the orchestra or if it's in a compilation with other composers. Looks like Google All Music does the same; no experience with Spotify, though.

I share one of the higher-level commenter's concerns--the degradation of the sound quality. Being able to hear the valves on the instruments and the full range of music gives a much more immersive experience. I had a recording of Count Basie opening for Frank Sinatra (it's basically the hour before they recorded Sinatra at the Sands), and you can hear the audience's glasses like you were sitting in the venue. I love streaming for my DeadMau5 and background music as much as the next monkey, but I still buy the classical and jazz recordings on CD for those extra effects.

Re: Why Can't Streaming Services Get Classical Music Right?

#87

Post by rspeer »

porker wrote: post #83
rspeer wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've spent a while making a Bach playlist, so yes, I do have these things basically bookmarked by now. But it sounds like you're telling me that search is easy as long as I know exactly what I want to find. The problem with classical metadata is when you know the work you want to find, and you want a quality performance, but you don't necessarily know: - What "title" it was given. Titles are neither consistent nor un…

Are your classical playlists public? I've given up looking through Spotify's catalogue for the reasons you outline.

I've been kind of half-assed about "releasing" them so far, but yes! Here are my Bach playlists: http://rspeer.github.io/blog/2014/09/25/bachify/
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