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Amazon Sign Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May

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Re: Amazon Sign Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May

#81

Post by omonra »

ris wrote: post #74
omonra wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the links. The more I read from this guy, the more I like him. It's sort of a fine balance - we can't have everybody on tv making fun of gypsies and mexicans. On the other hand it feels too sterile when nobody can say what 90% of the people think. I'm glad he exists.

"what 90% of the people think" I think a lot of people like to think that 90% of the population have the same rather twisted prejudices as them.

Yeah, yeah - stereotypes are all false. And twisted!

Re: Amazon Sign Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May

#82

Post by foldr »

yokohama11 wrote: post #45
DanBC wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there's the stuff about "slopes". And the stuff about gypsies. And the stuff about Mexicans. And all the other stuff. http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/here-are-all-the-nonra... http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/jere... Here's a useful Graniad opinion piece about Clarkson: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/08/not-eno... It's a persistent pattern. Whether that should affec…

He makes comments about every group, I've seen no persistent bias against any group (aside from politicians who make it less fun to drive). And he certainly doesn't exclude himself/his own type, as there's something negative about the UK practically 30 seconds. As for "it's just a joke", yes, it is. Pretty much every successful comedian uses ethnicity/race sometimes. Bad ones rely on it entirely (Ex: Carlos Mencia).…

Any instances of Clarkson making offensive comments about white people?

Also, when all the presenters are white, it's a little hard to take this "we make fun of everyone" line seriously. If a white British person makes fun of white British people, that's obviously a different dynamic to a white British person making fun of people lower down the social pecking order.

Oh, and then outside the show, there's the times Clarkson has explicitly advocated racism:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/9247835/J...

Re: Amazon Sign Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May

#83

Post by wesomefolks »

koonsolo wrote: post #14
ris wrote: post #2

This is an interesting statement by Amazon about its stance on (persistent) racial slurs.

Maybe it's a statement on how they feel of everything needing to be politically correct. The shows popularity is probably also an indication on how most people feel about needing to be politically correct. The recent github 'retard' ban is a nice example of forced political correctness.

Precisely. Why must every single show on Earth be politically correct and socially sanitized lest it offends anyone?

You don't like Clarkson, turn the TV off. It's not hard at all. But to go on and on about a show you dislike, is to be a serf to the zeitgeist of Political Correctness and Cultural Marxism that has been progressively censoring so many aspects of our life, culture and history.

This is being done on purpose, but most of the public will never see it or admit it if they see it because most people are programmed to follow the leader(ship) whatever they do.

For instance, the Confederate Flag was banned, but the sickle and hammer flag which killed upwards of 100 Million people isn't. So you can tell who is doing the censoring.

Meet the new censors, same as the old censors.

Re: Amazon Sign Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May

#84

Post by wesomefolks »

ris wrote: post #71
omonra wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not see it - but I read the Wiki article about his controversies. All of them appear to be no more than play on words, there is never any ill will or desire to humiliate anybody. The reason these particular jokes get noticed is because some people are obsessed with crying foul when certain groups are offended. He could make 10 jokes about the English/Scotts/Welsh and nobody would bat an eyelash.

So a play on words with the word "nigger" would be ok by you? "...never any ill will or desire to humiliate anybody" - this is the sort of very flimsy faux-naivity that I come to expect in these debates - especially on technical forums with a very literal-thinking crowd. "He could make 10 jokes about the English/Scotts/Welsh and nobody would bat an eyelash." Context. You cannot ignore context as much as you try. In t…

Any word he wants to use is OK. He's on TV, he's an artist, it's his art. You don't get to decide which strokes he can make or which brushes he can use or which words he can paint an idea with.

If you don't like a car show with a racist guy, make a better car show and don't be a racist.

But understand, if you want to convince people of a position, you can only do so by being an example to them and hoping to change their mind; you cannot censor, ban, fine, imprison, commit violence against those you disagree with, and then expect people to convert to your opinion.

For the record, I care not an iota about a show about cars made by a comedian. I do appreciate Clarkson when he is on Quite Interesting.

Honestly, what do you think you are accomplishing by sitting and criticizing someone that is out in the world doing something? Either do it better or shut up.

Re: Amazon Sign Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May

#85

Post by wesomefolks »

foldr wrote: post #82
yokohama11 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He makes comments about every group, I've seen no persistent bias against any group (aside from politicians who make it less fun to drive). And he certainly doesn't exclude himself/his own type, as there's something negative about the UK practically 30 seconds. As for "it's just a joke", yes, it is. Pretty much every successful comedian uses ethnicity/race sometimes. Bad ones rely on it entirely (Ex: Carlos Mencia).…

Any instances of Clarkson making offensive comments about white people? Also, when all the presenters are white, it's a little hard to take this "we make fun of everyone" line seriously. If a white British person makes fun of white British people, that's obviously a different dynamic to a white British person making fun of people lower down the social pecking order. Oh, and then outside the show, there's the times Cl…

> Any instances of Clarkson making offensive comments about white people?

The whole mainstream media makes offensive comments about white people, how they are responsible for slavery, how they are all racists, how they are incompetent husbands, aloof fathers, conspiracy theorists, the list goes on.

But god forbid white people are allowed to watch another white guy crack a few jokes at other races.

> that's obviously a different dynamic to a white British person making fun of people lower down the social pecking order.

That's racist. Wow. True racism right here. Excuse me? So you really think there are groups of people, I assume ethnic groups, who are "lower down the social pecking order"? That is unadultered racism - the belief that another ethnic group is inferior to your ethnic group in anyway.

I have no problem with any word being used by any comedian, but if they ever said "I think black people are lower down in the social pecking order" then that would be a truly unambiguous racist statement.

Re: Amazon Sign Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May

#86

Post by cwisecarver »

foldr wrote: post #82
yokohama11 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He makes comments about every group, I've seen no persistent bias against any group (aside from politicians who make it less fun to drive). And he certainly doesn't exclude himself/his own type, as there's something negative about the UK practically 30 seconds. As for "it's just a joke", yes, it is. Pretty much every successful comedian uses ethnicity/race sometimes. Bad ones rely on it entirely (Ex: Carlos Mencia).…

Any instances of Clarkson making offensive comments about white people? Also, when all the presenters are white, it's a little hard to take this "we make fun of everyone" line seriously. If a white British person makes fun of white British people, that's obviously a different dynamic to a white British person making fun of people lower down the social pecking order. Oh, and then outside the show, there's the times Cl…

You should watch the show before you speak about it. They make fun of each other, they make fun of Americans, they make fun of the Welsh, they make fun of people from the North, they make fun of the French, the Germans, Mexicans, Africans, Koreans and many more. Literally everyone. The show was about them pushing limits. They were cast as hyperbole factories. They were caricatures of middle-aged white English guys.

Re: Amazon Sign Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May

#87

Post by yokohama11 »

foldr wrote: post #82
yokohama11 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He makes comments about every group, I've seen no persistent bias against any group (aside from politicians who make it less fun to drive). And he certainly doesn't exclude himself/his own type, as there's something negative about the UK practically 30 seconds. As for "it's just a joke", yes, it is. Pretty much every successful comedian uses ethnicity/race sometimes. Bad ones rely on it entirely (Ex: Carlos Mencia).…

Any instances of Clarkson making offensive comments about white people? Also, when all the presenters are white, it's a little hard to take this "we make fun of everyone" line seriously. If a white British person makes fun of white British people, that's obviously a different dynamic to a white British person making fun of people lower down the social pecking order. Oh, and then outside the show, there's the times Cl…

He makes fun of himself, his co-presenters and basically everything about the UK and British people constantly (especially when it comes to manufacturing).

For that matter, they've done entire episodes about how terrible the UK is at things, like the British Leyland cheap car challenge.

If he made those comments about anything else, someone would call them offensive. I find that double standard and the concept that you can't make jokes about anything far more concerning than the content of his "controversies" aside from the punching.

Re: Amazon Sign Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May

#88

Post by yokohama11 »

foldr wrote: post #79
rtkwe wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're (pretty much) fine with violence, it's sexuality that makes some parts of the US go wonky and revert to a puritanical default.

It's not violence that's the real issue with Clarkson, it's racism. Yes, he ultimately got fired for doing something violent, but not on TV. If you say something (that could be interpreted as) racist on a mainstream US TV show there is also a backlash. E.g.: http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2015/mar/13/univisio...

There's a huge difference between being considered a "serious" TV personality and an "unserious" one, and what your public image is.

And even then, it depends on audience. FOX News personalities express far worse sentiments daily and mean them than Clarkson ever has. Their audience is fine with that.

Paula Deen was supposed to be a nice upstanding older woman showing people cooking. Even the claim that she might have used a racial slur in the past torpedoed her career.

Clarkson's public image, and one that he intentionally curates, is one of being bombastic and politically incorrect. He can crack whatever jokes he wants without it going to hurt his career in the US. In some respects, Howard Stern might be a good comparison of someone with a fairly similar type of image.

Re: Amazon Sign Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May

#89

Post by foldr »

cwisecarver wrote: post #86
foldr wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any instances of Clarkson making offensive comments about white people? Also, when all the presenters are white, it's a little hard to take this "we make fun of everyone" line seriously. If a white British person makes fun of white British people, that's obviously a different dynamic to a white British person making fun of people lower down the social pecking order. Oh, and then outside the show, there's the times Cl…

You should watch the show before you speak about it. They make fun of each other, they make fun of Americans, they make fun of the Welsh, they make fun of people from the North, they make fun of the French, the Germans, Mexicans, Africans, Koreans and many more. Literally everyone. The show was about them pushing limits. They were cast as hyperbole factories. They were caricatures of middle-aged white English guys.

As I said, when you have a group consisting exclusively of middle-aged white English guys, then making fun of "everyone" is not really as equitable as you're making out. Punching down isn't the same thing as poking fun at yourself. If me and my white friends get together and tell some racist jokes about black people followed by some racist jokes about white people to "balance it out", that's not ok.

Re: Amazon Sign Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May

#90

Post by foldr »

yokohama11 wrote: post #88
foldr wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not violence that's the real issue with Clarkson, it's racism. Yes, he ultimately got fired for doing something violent, but not on TV. If you say something (that could be interpreted as) racist on a mainstream US TV show there is also a backlash. E.g.: http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2015/mar/13/univisio...

There's a huge difference between being considered a "serious" TV personality and an "unserious" one, and what your public image is. And even then, it depends on audience. FOX News personalities express far worse sentiments daily and mean them than Clarkson ever has. Their audience is fine with that. Paula Deen was supposed to be a nice upstanding older woman showing people cooking. Even the claim that she might have…

There is no comparable mainstream show in the US with a presenter as openly racist and offensive as Clarkson. Nor could there be, because they would be fired (as my and your examples show). I wouldn't necessarily say that the US is "less racist" than the UK on the whole, but to the credit of the former, it is hard to imagine a US show about cars being presented exclusively by openly bigoted white dudes.
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