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GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

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Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#801

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Censorship is a fact of life and human experience. Calling for its eradication is to call for the erasure of a fundamental aspect of human cognition. So we're going to apply the principle sensibly. The simple truth no one here wants to admit while they argue slippery slopes and excluded middles about how the only harm worth noting is total genocide: there is no real communicative value for github in allowing slurs on…

>>KirinDave/StupidMinecraftFoolin Now someone comes along and says: I have been called a stupid fool all my life. I have reported this repo because it deeply offends me. We stupid fools prefer to refer to ourselves as brainless nincompoops.

Can you show people using the word "stupid fool" in hate crime? Because we can do that for the word retard.

Can you show people using the word "stupid fool" in a genocidal program of mass murder? Because we can show the Nazis testing their mass murder techniques on "retards" before moving onto Jews.

Can you show doctors not providing medical treatment to people because those people are "stupid fools"? Because we can do that for people who were labelled "retards".

Can you show doctors conducting medical experiments on people without their knowledge because those people were "stupid fools"? Because we can do that for people labelled "retard".

Can you show people being forcibly sterilised against their will because they are "stupid fools"? Because we can do that for people labelled "retards".

Can you show people being segregated from society because they are "stupid fools"? Because we can do that for people labelled "retard".

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#802
1) A person uses an "offensive" word (without intent or without directing it at a particular person) but only to highlight a dislike of an idea or way of doing things.

2) A person uses an "offensive" word to make somebody else feel bad by directing their language at their victim.

I feel these two are in fact different uses of the word and I don't have sympathy for the "victim" in the first scenario. In the second scenario there is clear intent to hurt an individual. In the first scenario something like "Library for retards" is doing what exactly? The retarded reader sees the word retarded, remembers that they are retarded, and then feels sad because they are in fact retarded? Insulted by proxy. It, unfortunately, clearly implies that being retarded is bad. Lets be honest though. How many people here would switch their current level of cognitive abilities for that of somebody who is mentally disabled? Nobody. It is a terrible state of human suffering (I would say). But then again I am biased in thinking that life is "better" on the right end of most bell curves.

- If somebody is actively trying to hurt another person physically this needs to stop. Full stop.

- If somebody is trying to emotionally hurt another person because of who they are that should stop. So calling somebody retarded to their face? Not a good thing.

- If somebody is trying to emotionally hurt another person by calling them names arbitrary names ("you fag" when the person is in fact hetero etc) is not a good thing.

The above are based on intent and are targeted towards a victim.

- If somebody tries to insult another persons beliefs or ideas? Perfectly ok. This, of course, isn't what is happening in this case on github, but since this thread seems to be talking a bit about slippery slopes, I would rather not see our society fall so far at to make criticism a punishable "offense".

At the end of the day changing one single word is just fine, but I wish it had happened in a more positive way rather than github using the heavy hand of their "policy" (an undefinable totally subjective ambiguity that isn't applied uniformly to the whole site).

By the way, I am looking forward to the day when an "offensive word" registry is kept that bans language from use on the internet. If a word is found to be offensive by 10,000 or more individuals anywhere in the world, we have to be sure to purge it from everyday usage (good luck keeping up with malicious grade school kids) /s ...It is a stupid idea.

"Sticks and stones will break my bones and words will most certainly kill me." The new mantra.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#803
post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One good instance of disingenuity deserves another: wait a second, I thought you said words couldn't cause harm!! It can't be harmful if I call you/Eich/Card a homophobe. He'll/They'll just have to get over it and deal with the repercussions themselves! How can you call the "just words" of what happened to Eich and Card a "shitstorm", but fail to see how "just words" can have a real, tangible impact on other people w…

Shitstorm was not just words - crybabies can cry whatever they want. But Eich got sacked, which is totally different. No retard was ever sacked for being called a retard. EDIT: clearly you're failing to notice a difference between calling names and calls to action. "Kill all cyclists" is a call to action, evil and, likely, illegal. "All cyclists are dimwits" is calling names, innocent and funny.

> No retard was ever sacked for being called a retard.

Sure they have. You can deny it all you like, but that's what ignorant bigots do.

Retards have been murdered by people calling them retard. Retards have been driven to suicide by people calling them retard. Retards have been used for medical experimentation by people calling them retards.

You saying "it's just a word" ignores the fact that the word has been used as a package of behaviours to label these people as sub-human, and undesirable, and other, and then not treat them like humans.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#804

1) A person uses an "offensive" word (without intent or without directing it at a particular person) but only to highlight a dislike of an idea or way of doing things. 2) A person uses an "offensive" word to make somebody else feel bad by directing their language at their victim. I feel these two are in fact different uses of the word and I don't have sympathy for the "victim" in the first scenario. In the second sce…

Also this sort of "drive-by looking to be insulted" scanning of online repos etc is pathetic in my mind.

For instance:

https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941

The individuals who threw their childish temper tantrums and caused the explosive issue will:

1) Never be back other than to "report" the original offender if they ever catch him violating the COC that they so proudly forced on an otherwise harmless community.

2) Never have and never will contribute anything to the code base. Ever! Talk about entitlement.

It is the worst type of third-party drive-by policing ever.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#805
post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are cases of people who have completed suicide because of bullying based on their LD. There are cases of people who have attempted suicide because of bullying based on their LD. These are significant because people with LD are under-represented in suicide statistics. > Try it. Go on. Call me whatever you want. And watch me not give two fucks what you think. Next time you need medical treatment to keep you alive…

Quite apart from LDs, there's something wrong with a medical system that allows doctors to decide who they want to resuscitate.

You probably need to investigate whatever your local version of "advance directives" are.

Seriously, advance directives give doctors useful information about keeping you alive / letting you die.

Don't say things like "no heroic measures", because that's a rare occasion. Be specific.

You're right, though. Those doctors were wrong, and that's why it's a thing. They should have involved the patient, and the family, in the decision.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#806
post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cognitive dissonance of people downvoting comments when they are complaining about censorship is baffling. The hypocrisy is weird.

Downvoting isn't equal to censorship. The content remains available for anyone with an account. The commit history of this project remains available too... however, they forbid the authors to use the word in the live version if they want their project to be hosted on github. Now, I guess it's their prerogative to set the rules for people using their service. But I think it's also fair to say that being the facebook o…

> Downvoting isn't equal to censorship.

In every thread about downvoting ever you have people who strongly feel that downvoting anything other than flagrant rule-breaking posts is censorship - it makes the content less available.

> The content remains available for anyone with an account.

Github are not magically destroying content. They're just removing it from their servers. Since they own those servers it seems reasonable that they are allowed to chose what goes onto them. We can disagree about where they draw the line, but some people in this thread seem to think that Github does not have the right to draw that line anywhere.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#807
post #754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Git is not equivalent to retard. Git is an everyday word. You can definitely get away with calling a pal a grumpy git. You're not going to get away with calling peoe retards unless you know them very well. And don't do so in public. At least, this is the case for the UK.

And 100 years ago you could get away with calling someone who was mentally impaired a "retard". That's the wonderful thing about language, it's always evolving. Personally, if someone called me a "git" or a "retard" I would take it exactly the same way, since they are both connotations for "idiot" or "slow thinker".

yes, language evolves. Now we recognise that retard was used to define people as sub-human and then to murder them; experiment upon them; forcibly sterilise them against their will and without their knowledge; deny them medical treatment (which often leads to their slow painful death); to bully and harass them; deny them employment; deny them opportunity; segregate them; abuse them; rape them.

Using the word retard against people who do not have LD is a weak insult to them, but does cause hurt to a large number of weak, dis-empowered people.

Retard as an insult is fucking stupid and lazy because it misses the mark.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#808
post #645
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Search my post history. I use words like cunt or fuck. I don't use the word retard because I recognise that it is frequently used by people committing a hate crime (an actual crime, like violence against the person, or sexual violence, or theft); and I recognise that use of the word contributes to a culture that de-personalises people with LD and makes it easier for doctors to murder them with the justification of "r…

Did you have a privileged/sheltered life or was it rough? I am genuinely asking because you brought up hate crime. Did you have to endure much of it growing up? Is that why you relate a world that essentially means "dumb" (not physics) it to hate crime.

> Is that why you relate a world that essentially means "dumb" (not physics) it to hate crime.

Perhaps this is a cultural issue, especially for people who do not speak English as a first language and especially if they watch US media where the word is more used.

Retard does not mean "dumb". If you want to call someone dumb use dumb, stupid, idiotic, etc. Avoid retard. Because retard is not much of an insult to the person you're using it for, but it is to people with LD or their carers. By using the word retard you're not particularly insulting your target, but you are insulting a wide range of people who you probably don't mean to be insulting.

Retard historically means person with a learning disability. It will continue to mean that for a while, although the use is gradually changing, and it's not officially used apart from one narrow situation (A US user group).

Hate incidents based on disability are very common.

https://www.mencap.org.uk/blog/four-things-you-probably-didn...

The UK crime survey is part of UK national statistics. This means they use robust methods and that the numbers are reliable.

> The number of disability hate incidents (not all necessarily crimes) is higher than the number of homophobic hate incidents and religious-based hate incidents. The Crime Survey for England and Wales – the most authoritative picture of crime in the country - estimated that there were 124,000 disability hate incidents in the past two years alone.

MENCAP, a charity working for people with learning disabilities did some survey work in 2000.

> Almost 9 in 10 people with a learning disability surveyed had experienced bullying or harassment in the past year - an incredible 88%

> Of these, two thirds (66%) of people were victims regularly and one third (32%) were being bullied on a daily or weekly basis Three quarters (73%) of people had experienced bullying or harassment in a public place

> Half (47%) of the people surveyed had suffered verbal abuse, and a quarter (23%) had been physically assaulted.

The "Living in Fear" report is here: https://www.mencap.org.uk/sites/default/files/documents/2009...

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#809
post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feminism, by its very name, is a sexist philosophy. And according to feminists, sexism (mainly patriarchy) is bad. Unless it's feminism. Feminism -> Feminine -> Female Definition of -ism: a distinctive practice, system, or philosophy, typically a political ideology or an artistic movement.

Words aren't legos fella, and they have more than one meaning. "Sexism" is a good example. It can mean any discrimination by gender or sex. It also refers to a socio-political structure under which it is impossible for a woman to effectively discriminate or oppress a man. Which meaning you choose to wield says a lot about your biases. You will accept that a large chunk of modern history saw women deprived of basic ri…

Bla bla bla justification of sexism for females bla bla

I have an unsympathetic viewpoint because the Internet's public venues are being turned into a feminist hug box.

Even better yet, a feminist calls my viewpoint "not relevant" look at the visibility of this. Sure looks relevent to me.

And I don't care what feminism means to a single person. I look at what's happening using "feminism" and its abhorrent.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#810
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. This isn't censorship of the type that is illegal or not allowed. It is a private company deciding a word was inappropriate. 2. It seems like most in this comment thread agree that this action, as a singular act, is a good thing. The word was offensive. Github asked the repo to change it. They did. The end. 3. As for the larger context, the problem with the frequent use of slippery slope arguments and cries of "ce…

First they came for the cussers and swearers, but I didn't speak out because I don't cuss or swear. Then they came for the homophobes and cisgendered bigots, and I cheered them on, because I value diversity. Then they came for the conspiracy theorists, and I didn't speak out because I don't believe the reptoids are evil. Then they came for me, and there was none left to speak out.

"Then they came for me, and there was none left to speak out."

By then I'll probably fall into total submission already, so I'll most likely just trust their judgment that there must be something wrong with me.

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