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GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

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Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#751

Post by undersuit »

grkvlt wrote: post #374

So, why on earth are similarly 'offensive' repositories like https://github.com/meh/retarded (may be NSFW based on language) still available? This seems either a very selective policy, or there is something else going on beyond the mere use of the word 'Retard' here. I found the example above with a simple Google search, and I'm sure there are many more that can be picked out, depending on the choice of obscenity or…

I've been pointing out https://github.com/brockma/retard on Reddit since the news broke over there.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#752

Post by DanBC »

jazzyk wrote: post #647
DanBC wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your child is eating something. You ask if you can try a bit. They laughingly say "no way! These are mine!" Do you then continue the joke? "stop being such a Jew! Give me a chip!" Are you saying it's fine to use that word because it's just a joke? It's not a serious insult?

No, it is not fine to use what you described. The difference is that you are picking on a particular nationality, while "retarded" is a generic term meaning "mentally under-developed" which, while certainly not a term of endearment, may apply to any human.

I don't understand your point.

Why is it not okay to use the word Jew as an insult against non-Jews, while it's fine to use the word retard as an insult against non-retards?

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#753

Post by DanBC »

shkkmo wrote: post #507
DanBC wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't that reassure you? Assuming this letter is true: they're not stopping you from using offensive words, they're stopping you from using a very small set of words because those words contribute to a culture that cause actual harm. TV is a poor example: it's fine to make jokes about male rape on TV, but everyone loses their shit when an obscured nipple is shown.

'retarded' in it's current usage is not offensive. It means "very foolish or stupid." 'retarded' in it's dated usage is offensive, but it wasn't being used in that sense in the repo in question. This dated usage has fortunately fallen pretty much completely out of common usage. If I tell you "my brother is retarded" you know exactly what I mean because if I had wanted to tell you that my brother has a learning disabi…

> 'retarded' in it's current usage is not offensive. It means "very foolish or stupid."

Maybe where you live. Where I'm from "retard" is about as bad as nigger. Feel free to say it. Just don't be surprised when people tell you how annoyed they are at you for using it.

EDIT: not quite as bad. Media will use "the n word", but would not say "the r word".

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#754

Post by DanBC »

morganvachon wrote: post #487
palmer_eldritch wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Downvoting isn't equal to censorship. The content remains available for anyone with an account. The commit history of this project remains available too... however, they forbid the authors to use the word in the live version if they want their project to be hosted on github. Now, I guess it's their prerogative to set the rules for people using their service. But I think it's also fair to say that being the facebook o…

> Downvoting isn't equal to censorship. Except when it is. Given sufficient downvotes, a post will fade to the same color as the background, making it easy to scroll past and not see it. Whether you want to admit it or not, brigading happens here too, and once in a while a perfectly valid, thoughtful, and reasoned response is silenced because it doesn't fit in with the group mentality here. The only solution for this…

Git is not equivalent to retard. Git is an everyday word. You can definitely get away with calling a pal a grumpy git. You're not going to get away with calling peoe retards unless you know them very well. And don't do so in public.

At least, this is the case for the UK.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#755

Post by lsaferite »

kentonv wrote: post #202
thedz wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your first three questions/answers, summarized, is that "Github ethically and legally removed an offensive word" Should they? Yes. I feel slippery slope arguments get brought up way too much sometimes. Every issue is turning into a binary all-or-nothing ordeal, with no room for nuance or context. As long as what Github did is 1. ethical (removing a generally accepted as offensive word), 2. legal, then I see no proble…

I'm not making any slippery slope argument. I'm saying that if it's hard to predict what minor infractions might result in 24-hour ultimatums, then that's going to make users uncomfortable, and that a lot of users wouldn't have predicted that this particular case would lead to a 24-hour ultimatum. If the ultimatum were, say, 30 days, then I think it's in the realm that I consider sensible. That's long enough to get b…

It was worse than a 24 hours ultimatum. The original got the notice and apparently never replied (due to abandonment?) which caused GH to disable the repo AND THE FORKS. The Fork owners were NOT notified. In fact, the problem was only resolved when a fork owner contacted GH and got the repo enabled 3 days later.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#756

Post by noir_lord »

j-pb wrote: post #539

As somebody who has multiple sclerosis and thus the prospect of disability (both physically and mentally), I find this trend worrying. I have other things to worry about than "bad words", I could spontaneously loose my vision, my ability to walk, type, speak, swallow or to breath, in addition to a variety of cognitive impairments. What keeps me up at night is wether that tingling in my hand is just because I lay on i…

I have a spinal condition and there is a distinct possibility I'll end up in a wheelchair at worst and crutches at best.

I also couldn't give a fuck about retard/cripple or anything else anyone else says, It offends me more that someone would get offended on my behalf as if I need protecting.

This mob justice shit is getting ridiculous really fast.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#757

Post by kunai »

kefka wrote: post #704
smrtinsert wrote: post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So when you have a request to the remove the word "retard" from a repo, and that request is complied with, feminism is to blame. Got it!

Because in the case of GitHub censorship, it really is feminism and social justice warrior garbage. But I might be a white (-3 points) guy (-2 points) so you have to balance that in with the cited facts about the rug. I think it's pretty clear.

I never thought I'd see the day when HN's tide of hatred would turn from government surveillance towards the social justice boogeymen of Redditdom. You're arguing that feminism and "social justice warrior garbage" are the direct causes of Github censoring repos. It's not. If Github was pressured by people on Tumblr to use a regex to change the word, it would be a different story.

They have good intentions, but the way they chose to implement it is completely unacceptable. You cannot censor the internet. This furor wouldn't really have occurred if they'd just sent the sap an email politely asking them to replace the word with something more sensitive.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#758

Post by DanBC »

plonh wrote: post #604
DanBC wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Words do cause harm. It's a failure of imagination to think otherwise. When you use the word retard you dehumanise people with LD. You contribute to a culture where it's okay to deny those people work; to segregate them in specialist housing; to deny them medical treatment; to kill them with lack of medical treatment. It's a slippery slope to eugenics and genocide to think otherwise.

Do you support banning all github projects that use the word "insane"? I assume you must, to be consistent in your morals.

I support github banning all projects that use the word "pickle" or "umbrella" or "orange". Their servers, their rules.

I'm less touchy about mental illness words. I tend notto say anything when they're used. I sometimes say something if people (wrongly) link mental illness to violence. There has been more time for insane etc to change use.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#759

Post by DanBC »

kefka wrote: post #596
DanBC wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I see someone who doesn't care about language I think the following: "I'm too stupid and lazy to use language creatively so I'll fall back on my stupid and lazy language. I can say what I like, and I'm going to try to deny you the same right. Some bollocks about SJWs and Leftists goes here".

Because I'm a supporter of all language, especially hate speech. Or the communist speech back in the 50's. Or Snowden's speech about violations of our government against us. Banning thoughts and words, as you seem apt to suggest, is how we migrate away from the principles of the 1st amendment. Of course, you will be wont to tell me that a private company isnt bound by them. Indeed. But where do we stop? It may be vog…

An americo-centric view. Europe seems to do well with pur limited freedom of expression.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#760

Post by kenrikm »

nols wrote: post #692
dwmtm wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're telling us a lot more about how you use speech in an attempt to shame other people and a lot less about how shaming and insulting 'stupid' is relative to 'so stupid'.

The problem is the historical usage of "retard" toward the mentally disabled and the trend to use the word to call not mentally disabled people mentally disabled as an insult. The "mentally disabled as an insult" part is why people don't want "retard" to be used. I don't use either of the words because I'm an adult who isn't British.

Problem solved! Instead of calling someone who is not mentally disabled "retard" as an insult we should all now call them "mentally disabled".

So next time someone who is not mentally disabled cuts you off in traffic just yell out "You're a mentally disabled individual!"

The underlying issue has nothing to do with the word but the meaning, you can kill the word but the meaning will be attached to something else. People who don't have respect for the mentally disabled will not be changed by censoring a word.

#sigh

Note: I don't endorse actually calling anyone mentally disabled, retarded, slow etc.. We should try to be better humans then that and treat people with the respect they deserve.

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