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Take-home interviews

blog.triplebyte.com

51–60 of 295 posts

Re: Take-home interviews

#51
post #46

I thought Gayle Laakman McDowell, who wrote "Cracking the Coding Interview", wrote a good article about the problems of take-home interviews. http://www.gayle.com/blog/2013/09/18/companies-who-give-cand... At the core of the problem is that this approach can be used to burn a lot of a candidate's time without an equivalent investment from the company. I've mentioned this before - I applied (maybe 5 years ago) to a co…

I've had a similar experience. A company I was trying to intern at asked me to write a rails app for them before they would think about giving me an interview. I wrote the app (which all-in took maybe 10 hours) and sent the recruiter a link to the heroku instance the app was running on and the repo on github.

I never got a response. I think three months later I might have gotten a one-liner saying they had gone in "a different direction" or some bullshit like that.

It's insulting and ludicrous for companies to treat prospective employees so disrespectfully.

Re: Take-home interviews

#53
I've done this, and liked the process.

Interview with 2 people for an hour or so. Then you get a Rails project, fix 3 bugs, choose and implement 2 features from a list, then 2 features they choose. Come back in a few days and discuss why/how you did what you did.

Re: Take-home interviews

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Approximately weekly, when explaining something to another engineer.

Why don't you give yourself time to think? Why don't you use documentation? Edit: Oh, and how do you version control the white board?

You can snap a picture of a filled board with your cell phone.

Re: Take-home interviews

#55
post #46

I thought Gayle Laakman McDowell, who wrote "Cracking the Coding Interview", wrote a good article about the problems of take-home interviews. http://www.gayle.com/blog/2013/09/18/companies-who-give-cand... At the core of the problem is that this approach can be used to burn a lot of a candidate's time without an equivalent investment from the company. I've mentioned this before - I applied (maybe 5 years ago) to a co…

This only applies if the take-home interview is obligatory.

I agree that obligatory take-home interviews are unfair (I feel the same about trial periods). They work (they're probably more accurate than a standard interview), but they take too much time from the applicant (and will thus scare away many of the best people).

As an option, however, I totally disagree. There's a significant percentage of good programmers who are ill served by standard interviews. Those people want this.

Re: Take-home interviews

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently graduated from college and started looking for my first programming jobs. I ran into a ton of these "take home" interviews and they were some of the most stressful things I've ever done. The first one, they asked me to solve an incredibly complex math problem that I had no idea about so I struggled with it for 5 or so hours before giving up. Probably good that they didn't give me the job; if they were expe…

You did an 8 hour test for them at full concentration, and they didn't even get back to you? Please name these idiots.

Not OP, but as someone who took a 6 hour test at full concentration, with no feedback other then a polite 'no', there are a few reasons I don't out them.

1) I didn't score well on the test. It's within reason they read this post and release my scores with a 'it was because he scored low'. Future employers then come across my scores and deny me.

2) Don't bite the hand that's like the hand that MIGHT feed you. You don't yell and storm out of investor meetings. Because then they tell other investors. Similar logic here.

3) This place is very optimistic. Pessimistic people aren't particularly desirable. Whistle blowers are included in the latter group especially by corporate entities. Who knows what it could cause.

It really boils down to the fact that it's not a safe environment to do so. Or at least it doesn't feel so.

Re: Take-home interviews

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good points. If you really care about being impartial, maybe have the 2 week period and a blind submission method in which the interviewer does not see when the assignment was completed.

But my rent is due the Friday after next and I need to know if I should send out another wave of resumes. It isn't but it strikes me we are looking very hard to find a new way to do things, when the old way was pretty damn good. Sit me down and talk about technology for ~thirty minutes. If I don't have the social skills to successfully do this (minority issue) I likely would not be able to communicate well with a tea…

>Invest in a competent hiring manager who can see through applicant bull shit and identify talent within a reasonable range. Includes basic negotiation skills. And assume the rightful risk that is employing another human being.

Problem with that is it's hard to find one. It's gotta be someone with pretty good coding skills. This person would then have to share their time between either coding head-down or managing coders, either of which are time-consuming and intolerant of disruption.

One idea I had was you could have mutual feedback. A bunch of people would after a while have anonymous input on each other, giving you say 10 coder's impressions of a fellow coder. This wouldn't have to be quizzes, half hour coffees could do.

Re: Take-home interviews

#58

Seems good, I like the choice. In discussions on this topic I see a lot of: "Programming on the spot is hard, let people program at home"! But then other people say "Why should I program for free at home, my resume clearly shows I am already a skilled programmer. All this will do is cater to young people without families, or those fresh out of school". I am not looking to hire devs right now, but I am thinking about…

> Would expect it to take maybe 5 hours to code.

So, if you are interviewing at 20 companies, you need to expend 100+ hours or almost 3 full work weeks?

It should take 1 hour or less. Period. Probably less that 1/2 hour. I doubt I get much more information asking you for a 5 hour assignment than a 1/2 hour assignment.

If I'm really that interested in your programming on the fly, I should do it at the interview where I'm paying for your lodging, food, etc. I should tell you what you are going to be doing, and to bring your laptop set up to do that.

Re: Take-home interviews

#59
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you give yourself time to think? Why don't you use documentation? Edit: Oh, and how do you version control the white board?

You can snap a picture of a filled board with your cell phone.

And you put the picture in version control?

Re: Take-home interviews

#60
The problem with random or unaligned assignments is you end up with a randomly skilled programmer. Often not bad, but not on point.

The problem with Rosalind or Project Euler assignments is you end up with an excellent theoretical math or bioinformatics programmer. Often not bad, but not on point.

Fundamentally anyone with a degree or experience or a non-trivial github can write code, but you want to test their judgement, their thought process, their comprehension, their style, their knowledge about your business domain. Other than total open field blank slate projects (very little of my time over the last 35 yrs has been spent in that mode) you usually have existing systems and code. So give them a "special" sample of your own code. Shouldn't be too hard to find unless you're literally hiring the first technical employee. Then give it to them a couple days before an interview and inform then you're gonna review that code together, they'll present you with a rewritten, redesigned version, and then review the rewrite together.

If you'll feel bad about making them do "real" work, the best code to send out is some that has been heavily customized to only work some of the time, not properly error check, and intentionally somewhat obfuscated, so I sincerely hope that code thats screwed up to that level has to be intentionally manually generated for the interview. So strip out most of the failure/error detection code, screw up some of the code, maybe intentionally cut and paste an almost identical function in place to see if they clean that up. Some folks like intentional outright errors, like typos, is this the kind of programmer who can't write English? Also wipe most of the comments, put some intentional logic errors in the comments. This can be fun...

If you're looking for non-intro level programmers "everyone knows everyone" and my latest job we didn't talk programming because I was vouched for as knowing what I'm doing from years of coworker experience at a past employer. I'd be moderately offended if someone I worked with for five years asked me to fizzbuzz, either in person or as a take home test.

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