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GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

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Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#721

Post by aerovistae »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #655
aerovistae wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slurs are part of discourse. Slurs are considered a problem because they're offensive . Banning them is the first step on the road to banning offensive content. Who arbitrates what is offensive? Sure, we can agree on "The N-Word" , but how about Idiot's Guide to Web Tools?

Can you not tell the difference between "The Idiot's Guide ..." and "The R---rd's Guide ..."? "Idiot" is not a derogatory slur.

Oh, is there a threshold? How many people have to be offended by it before it counts? Can you give me a number? I find 'idiot' to be a derogatory slur, does that mean nothing to you?

And note what I said in a previous commend about the elder meaning of 'idiot.' Pretty much means the same thing as 'retard' but people don't think of it that way anymore. You're taking such a traditional mindset about this, kind of "just what your parents told you."

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#722

Post by aerovistae »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #684
jmsmistral wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that subjective?

No, there's a clear objective line there. And while it'd be difficult to teach a computer that line, a human can understand it just fine.

Objective: (of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.

---

Please, PLEASE try and tell me that definition is compatible with a discussion of "which words hurt people's feelings."

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#723

Post by pekk »

kefka wrote: post #610
cmiles74 wrote: post #551

I don't understand how censoring something because "it's offensive to someone" came to be acceptable in the first place. Nearly everything is offensive to someone, it's simply too low a bar. I'm certainly not campaigning for more use of the terms "retard" and "retarded". On the other hand, I've experienced first hand the very common, reflexive and thoughtless use of these words. Whenever it's used in my presence I ma…

What's going on at Github is rather perverse. And it happens to be around the word "Meritocracy". Because of the "feels", the word meritocracy is a 'disempowering word'. It makes people with less skill feel 'less valuable'. So the impetus is to raise your skill? No. It's to devalue others who call you on it, or disregard your uninformed opinion. What this accumulates to is the Github rug in the headquarters. "The Uni…

This isn't the real problem. Github's earlier obsession with the word "meritocracy" isn't even relevant. Horvath isn't relevant here either. Feminism isn't relevant here. Paul Graham isn't relevant here. Reddit isn't relevant here. You're all over the place with stuff that isn't relevant.

The issue is that Github's content policing has been turned up to 11 so that it's not just harassment or even seriously offensive content anymore, it's repos with words for "dumb" or "stupid" in the code that are getting ultimatums. This is not really different from banning repos for taking the Lord's name in vain, or writing offensive words like fuck and shit. So Github has become an unsafe space for average programmers, who sometimes cuss or call something stupid or even take the Lord's name in vain. And that is no good, because Github's whole purpose is to host code for people.

That's important and should be addressed. But you are only screwing us over by associating us with GamerGate, anti-feminism and all that crap.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#724

Post by pekk »

kefka wrote: post #704
smrtinsert wrote: post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So when you have a request to the remove the word "retard" from a repo, and that request is complied with, feminism is to blame. Got it!

Because in the case of GitHub censorship, it really is feminism and social justice warrior garbage. But I might be a white (-3 points) guy (-2 points) so you have to balance that in with the cited facts about the rug. I think it's pretty clear.

I think Github is itself mostly white guys. Also, most of the people being labeled SJWs on the relevant Github issue are white guys. So this isn't about whether you are a white guy or being defensive about being a white guy.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#725

Post by Nadya »

pekk wrote: post #723
kefka wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's going on at Github is rather perverse. And it happens to be around the word "Meritocracy". Because of the "feels", the word meritocracy is a 'disempowering word'. It makes people with less skill feel 'less valuable'. So the impetus is to raise your skill? No. It's to devalue others who call you on it, or disregard your uninformed opinion. What this accumulates to is the Github rug in the headquarters. "The Uni…

This isn't the real problem. Github's earlier obsession with the word "meritocracy" isn't even relevant. Horvath isn't relevant here either. Feminism isn't relevant here. Paul Graham isn't relevant here. Reddit isn't relevant here. You're all over the place with stuff that isn't relevant. The issue is that Github's content policing has been turned up to 11 so that it's not just harassment or even seriously offensive…

>The issue is that Github's content policing has been turned up to 11

Stop here. Ask yourself "Why is GitHub dialing up to 11?"

Answer: A group known for being responsible for over-zealous political correctness and internet-mobbing is being over-zealous about their political correctness and internet-mobbing.

GitHub's answer to over-zealous politically correct internet mob? Cave in to their demands so they go away. "Turn it up to 11".

Do you blame GitHub for being pressured the internet mob - or do you blame the internet mob for pressuring GitHub?

A certain over-zealous politically correct internet mob made GitHub get rid of the word "meritocracy". A certain over-zealous politically correct internet mob was also responsible for the other things mentioned including the issues at Reddit. All of this stuff is related to the over-zealous politically correct internet mob.

The problem isn't with GitHub. It's with the over-zealous politically correct internet mob pressuring GitHub.

In short: Quit victim blaming.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#726

Post by pekk »

jamie_ca wrote: post #212
Animats wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This isn't censorship of the type that is illegal or not allowed. It is a private company deciding a word was inappropriate." As a Github user, that kind of thinking worries me. Google Code went away, and Sourceforge started packaging adware and spyware with other people's projects. They could do this because "they were a private company". Now Github's management is starting to throw their weight around. We now need…

You mean like https://gitlab.com/ or http://gogs.io/ or http://getgitorious.com/ or any of the other open source git servers that you can install on your own machine? Not to say that Github couldn't close down some of their API endpoints in the future (like reading issues/comments), but they're one of the web services I use that I _don't_ actually fear lock-in on.

That is fine as long as it is just you by yourself finding a place to stuff code nobody looks at. But if you have a long-term open source project homed at Github, your job uses Github, etc. and all your workflow and historical data is already tied to Github, it does not really help that the code could be stuffed on some other server.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#727

Post by kefka »

pekk wrote: post #723
kefka wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's going on at Github is rather perverse. And it happens to be around the word "Meritocracy". Because of the "feels", the word meritocracy is a 'disempowering word'. It makes people with less skill feel 'less valuable'. So the impetus is to raise your skill? No. It's to devalue others who call you on it, or disregard your uninformed opinion. What this accumulates to is the Github rug in the headquarters. "The Uni…

This isn't the real problem. Github's earlier obsession with the word "meritocracy" isn't even relevant. Horvath isn't relevant here either. Feminism isn't relevant here. Paul Graham isn't relevant here. Reddit isn't relevant here. You're all over the place with stuff that isn't relevant. The issue is that Github's content policing has been turned up to 11 so that it's not just harassment or even seriously offensive…

> The issue is that Github's content policing has been turned up to 11 so that it's not just harassment or even seriously offensive content anymore, it's repos with words for "dumb" or "stupid" in the code that are getting ultimatums.

And that's the effect in "cause and effect".

The cause is feminism's creep into the boardroom as a group to appease. And the policies are as inane as arguing that "meritocracy" is an evil male word. Meritocracy is also considered a 'micro-agression' by similar said feminists because it "makes them feel bad".

So, youre right that the problem right now is Github content policing. Why? My comment explains it.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#728

Post by pekk »

tachion wrote: post #333
Animats wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This isn't censorship of the type that is illegal or not allowed. It is a private company deciding a word was inappropriate." As a Github user, that kind of thinking worries me. Google Code went away, and Sourceforge started packaging adware and spyware with other people's projects. They could do this because "they were a private company". Now Github's management is starting to throw their weight around. We now need…

There are competitive services available, you know. You could host yourself with Gitweb, Gitlab or if that's not your cup of tea, then simply switch to Bitbucket - they're even allowing private repos for free! Vote with your legs.

That sounds good, but I am concerned Bitbucket will go in the same direction soon because they are always playing catch-up to compete with Github.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#729

Post by shkkmo »

kefka wrote: post #714
shkkmo wrote: post #710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Feminism, by its very name, is a sexist philosophy. And according to feminists, sexism (mainly patriarchy) is bad. Unless it's feminism. That seems to imply that you don't think sexism is bad. Did you mean to imply that? Feminism, is by definition, anti-sexist. There are sexists who claim to be feminists, but that doesn't change the meaning of the word. While the term 'feminism' does come from the root 'feminine',…

> Feminism, is by definition, anti-sexist. Really now. Sexism in all of its forms is bad. That includes feminism AND masculinism. > While the term 'feminism' does come from the root 'feminine', it refers to an umbrella of ideologies that includes many advocates of equal rights for men as well as for women. Citation needed for italicized text.

> Really now.

Many (most?) definitions of feminism are along the lines of "supporting equal rights for men and women" or "equality between the sexes".

Feminism is an umbrella term for a group of ideologies, some of who do not agree with either of those definitions. In that sense my statement is not accurate. However it is still far more accurate that your attempt to use the latin root of the word to define its meaning while ignoring its use and history.

> Citation needed for italicized text

Here's one: I am a feminist and I support equal rights for men as well women.

Here's another one to an established feminist thinker: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism#cite_note-hooks-6

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#730

Post by leshow »

nols wrote: post #698
kenrikm wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stupid, Git, Retard, Idiot, Dimwit etc.. In the context they are used all have very similar intentions to put someone down for not being smart. There is one really important point to keep in mind, when someone is offended about something someone else says or writes that is their decision and it is their problem not the one who did the offending. I personally don't generally use the term "retard" I also don't generall…

No, they really don't. Retard has historically been used to classify the mentally disabled, it literally was a definition. Using it to call someone mentally disabled as an insult is more offensive to the mentally disabled than calling someone stupid. That's the issue. You're free to use retard in your code as much as you want, apparently not on Github though. They, as a private company, are allowed to pick and choose…

It's likely not the mentally disabled that are getting offended.
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