Live data from Hacker News

GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

github.com

681–690 of 845 posts

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#681
post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only intolerance society should promote is the intolerance of intolerant beliefs. Bucketing people off as "rational people" and "worthy contributors" because they disagree with your beliefs is an unfortunate way of dismissing conversation, probably something that you dislike when people that oppose your beliefs do it. That is, I'd say that claiming that all "rational people" would agree with you is minimally diff…

Did I get it right that you support the shitstorm against Eich and Card? In my book, SJWs are by far much more evil and destructive than anyone from my list.

One good instance of disingenuity deserves another: wait a second, I thought you said words couldn't cause harm!! It can't be harmful if I call you/Eich/Card a homophobe. He'll/They'll just have to get over it and deal with the repercussions themselves!

How can you call the "just words" of what happened to Eich and Card a "shitstorm", but fail to see how "just words" can have a real, tangible impact on other people who don't share your particular persuasion?

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#682
The funny thing is that words differ based on context. So if Github wishes to get into the game of automatically banning repos based on "bad words", they'd need to consider it in the context of each language. For example "retard" in French means "late", so should a repo from a French dev be banned because he used "retard"?

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#683
post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone pointed out in the thread on Github, the term "Git" is also an offensive term. Who's going to start the petition for Github to change its name? Slippery Slopes Indeed. From Wikipedia: "Git is a mild[1] pejorative with origins in British English for a silly, incompetent, stupid, annoying, senile, elderly or childish person.[2] It is usually an insult, more severe than twit or idiot but less severe than wank…

That's not the same thing though. Calling someone a git is just calling them stupid, calling someone a retard is saying they're so stupid they're mentally disabled and they should feel ashamed for it. It's pretty insulting towards people with mental disabilities. Even Linus has said he named git after himself because he's so egotistical.

You're telling us a lot more about how you use speech in an attempt to shame other people and a lot less about how shaming and insulting 'stupid' is relative to 'so stupid'.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#684

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you not tell the difference between "The Idiot's Guide ..." and "The R---rd's Guide ..."? "Idiot" is not a derogatory slur.

Isn't that subjective?

No, there's a clear objective line there. And while it'd be difficult to teach a computer that line, a human can understand it just fine.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#685
This debacle is what happens when feminism gets in the way.

Meritocracy is now a "bad word" according to feminists. The start of this change began at GitHub 2 years ago, with getting rid of a rug. The rug said,

"United Meritocracy of GitHub"

source:http://readwrite.com/2014/01/24/github-meritocracy-rug

This goes down the social justice warrior, feminism, and racism avenues, so it of course had to change.

Now, why is Meritocracy bad?

"By discarding the difficulties inherent in being both objective and humanistic, leaders in the open source community ignore the moral impact of their value system and focus solely on the potential value of their creations. The comfortable elite benefit from the status quo and never have to question the circumstances that keep them in positions of power."

The Dehumanizing Myth of the Meritocracy , by Coraline Ada Ehmke https://modelviewculture.com/pieces/the-dehumanizing-myth-of...

Should I interpret the article as content based upon its merit, or should I take the fact a white (-3 points), female (+5 points), lesbian (+2 points), computer programmer (-4 points) wrote this article? Look at the bright side, if she can claim black (+10 points), then we have to view her content even more positively.

My answer is that I should evaluate the points and content on its merit. I'm sure she would be appalled that I would want to give her "fake minority points" to falsely increase/decrease her perceived score... Then again, I may be wrong.

But this, fellow programmer, is what we are having to fight against. I may be male. I may be female. I may be transgender. I may even be a nullo(just.dont.ask.). Or White. Or black. Or Asian. Or have a disability. Or be intellectually superior. Or completely average. But what I do have is my words, and how others read and interpret the content and worth of my words. It reminds me a document I read long ago...

"We exist without skin color, without nationality, without religious bias... and you call us criminals...

...Yes, I am a criminal. My crime is that of curiosity. My crime is that of judging people by what they say and think, not what they look like. My crime is that of outsmarting you, something that you will never forgive me for."

\/\The Conscience of a Hacker/\/

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#686
post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did I get it right that you support the shitstorm against Eich and Card? In my book, SJWs are by far much more evil and destructive than anyone from my list.

One good instance of disingenuity deserves another: wait a second, I thought you said words couldn't cause harm!! It can't be harmful if I call you/Eich/Card a homophobe. He'll/They'll just have to get over it and deal with the repercussions themselves! How can you call the "just words" of what happened to Eich and Card a "shitstorm", but fail to see how "just words" can have a real, tangible impact on other people w…

Shitstorm was not just words - crybabies can cry whatever they want. But Eich got sacked, which is totally different. No retard was ever sacked for being called a retard.

EDIT: clearly you're failing to notice a difference between calling names and calls to action. "Kill all cyclists" is a call to action, evil and, likely, illegal. "All cyclists are dimwits" is calling names, innocent and funny.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#687
post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People with learning disability have been the target of eugenics in various forms. They've been subjected to sterilisation sometimes without their knowledge and sometimes against their will. They've been interned in segregated care homes. They've been murdered - either directly killed because they have LD or allowed to die by doctors refusing to provide medical care or placing DNR notices without the patient's (or th…

And how exactly did you manage to draw a connection between these outrageous facts and a use of an innocent derogatory language?

It's not "innocent derogatory language". "Cockroach" is just a word. Cockroach was used to dehumanise Tutsi in Rawanda. Use of that language was a small part of the genocide of Tutsi by Hutu majority.

We see similar dehumanising language in other genocidal actions: it's present in Nazi Germany when they describe Jewish people as subhuman - the same word has been used against people with LD. Not just by the Nazis with their T4 program[1] but also by British eugenics supporters.[2] these eugenic attitudes lost popularity after the war, but they were still easy enough to find.

And apart from these dehumanising effects the word is used to creat fear, alarm, and distress among the people it's used against. People are routinely attacked with that word.

If you think words can't hurt i) you've had a cushy life and ii) you spectacularly lack imagination and empathy.

Really: learn to English and come up with better insults.

[1] http://www.ushmm.org/outreach/en/article.php?ModuleId=100076...

[2] http://www.newstatesman.com/society/2010/12/british-eugenics...

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#688
post #421
post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who decides what is and is not appropriate? GitHub, because that stuff is hosted on their servers. This is not about Open Source . This is about GitHub. Yes, it has no place in Open Source. Whether or not it has a place on GitHub is, however, up to GitHub itself.

Github has become a too important center for open source work, to silently accept their policy.

There are two possibilities:

* Either this is not OK for Open Source, and it will prompt people to move away from GitHub -- because, sure, we needed the INT_MAXth reminder that relying on a private third-party for a free service is a bad idea, or

* This is something most open source projects have no problem with, and they'll just keep going, while leaving open source "radicals" like you and me to whine about it.

Github didn't just magically become this super important center for open source work. It's an important center for the open source world because a lot of people are using it.

It can stop being an important center, that's not a problem.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#689
post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone pointed out in the thread on Github, the term "Git" is also an offensive term. Who's going to start the petition for Github to change its name? Slippery Slopes Indeed. From Wikipedia: "Git is a mild[1] pejorative with origins in British English for a silly, incompetent, stupid, annoying, senile, elderly or childish person.[2] It is usually an insult, more severe than twit or idiot but less severe than wank…

That's not the same thing though. Calling someone a git is just calling them stupid, calling someone a retard is saying they're so stupid they're mentally disabled and they should feel ashamed for it. It's pretty insulting towards people with mental disabilities. Even Linus has said he named git after himself because he's so egotistical.

It's insulting to some perhaps due to their own self-perception but the definition of the word and its word origins are separate from how somebody feels about the way a word may have been co-opted over a period of time. Retard is interesting because its meaning is pretty clear and innocuous. The word is also quite useful.

If you say a material is fire retardant, you not only are free to say this, it would be ridiculous to have to invent or supplant a new word because one was co-opted over time and personified, turned into a noun. People will disagree, but it takes mental gymnastics to be offended by things like that.

That's why people have developed the SJW social justice warrior moniker and I think it fits well. Because it's an imaginary problem and working within that framework these kinds of people will eat themselves to death. So why engage or contribute to it at the expense of time, logic, and a reduction in cohesion of everyone else working towards goals.

You have to give people the power to use words like this where a true meaning well defined is absent of insult and if used as insult, if not specifically directed at someone, you can't allow another person's claim of offense to affect the conversation thats apart from them.

this is my biggest problem of a lot of the narrative spread by certain people and the media. maybe it's a thing with modern society where foolish people misidentify real problems and instead use their valuable time on things like microaggressions thereby taking focus (sometimes on purpose) off actual aggressions. And so far it's recipe for a failed state. Christopher Hitchens said it well. "The fact that you’re offended has absolutely no bearing on the truth of the matter"

The sad thing, the very sad thing is the media do better on these kinds of controversies because they generate views. I have chosen to participate here on this in hopes it might actually set somebody straight. The people who claim this kind of censorship are the same people who purport that there is strength in diversity. But unfortunately they don't really know what diversity really looks like in terms of diversity of ideas. They imagine it means comfort but they are wrong. Understanding diversity means bearing with discomfort and dealing with the imperfections of speech, perception and letting go of this idea that you can break down useful frameworks and infrastructure and it will make things better. That's not how one becomes a valuable participant in anything and they make communities suffer.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#690
post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone pointed out in the thread on Github, the term "Git" is also an offensive term. Who's going to start the petition for Github to change its name? Slippery Slopes Indeed. From Wikipedia: "Git is a mild[1] pejorative with origins in British English for a silly, incompetent, stupid, annoying, senile, elderly or childish person.[2] It is usually an insult, more severe than twit or idiot but less severe than wank…

That's not the same thing though. Calling someone a git is just calling them stupid, calling someone a retard is saying they're so stupid they're mentally disabled and they should feel ashamed for it. It's pretty insulting towards people with mental disabilities. Even Linus has said he named git after himself because he's so egotistical.

Stupid, Git, Retard, Idiot, Dimwit etc.. In the context they are used all have very similar intentions to put someone down for not being smart.

There is one really important point to keep in mind, when someone is offended about something someone else says or writes that is their decision and it is their problem not the one who did the offending.

I personally don't generally use the term "retard" I also don't generally put slurs of any kind in my code. However I do take issue when someone says that I can't.

"Whoever is the stupid fucking idiot who made this dimwitted decision should go get their brain checked."

That's no less offensive then using the word retard and it's anyones right to down vote the comment on that basis or to just ignore me. Thus my point has been made.

Post reply on HN