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Why Can't Streaming Services Get Classical Music Right?

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Re: Why Can't Streaming Services Get Classical Music Right?

#61
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be targeting a niche market, not only because of the 3% market mentioned in the article, but because I imagine that all "serious" classical fans (i.e. serious enough to switch to consider using a dedicated streaming service) is also likely to have a big album collection. In other words, you'd likely be targeting a very fast-saturated market. And that's besides the legal/licensing horrors. That being said, I thi…

The other problem with this market as a business opportunity is that the audience is diminishing, aging and slow technology adopters. Go to any classical music concert and you will see that under 30s are in the vast minority. Look at how many venues open each year playing modern popular music (ie pop, house, indie, etc) and how many open playing classical music. I'm an active classical music fan in London - one of th…

The market is actually fairly constant, because older people - usually middle class - gravitate away from pop and become more interested in classical music in middle age.

The Proms aren't going to go away, nor are concert series in most of the UK's bigger cities. Nor is Classic FM, which is pretty much just Spotify with DJ chat and someone else's playlist, and is a good gateway pusher to classical recordings.

And middle class families will keep giving their kids piano and cello lessons, because that's what they do.

What's happened more - according to people I know - is that the intake at the Royal College and the Royal Academy is almost exclusively posh kids now, because rich parents are the only ones who can afford to hothouse and support their darlings through the exams. It was much more diverse a couple of decades ago, because music education - all education, in fact - was much more freely available.

That will do more to kill classical music than Spotify's metadata will, because it will become something that isn't made available to most of the population.

Re: Why Can't Streaming Services Get Classical Music Right?

#62
She has a point, but overall I'm reminded of Louis C.K.'s "Everything's amazing and nobody's happy" schtick. I've gotten pretty deep into classical music - consuming a dozen or so books on the subject and listening to nearly all of the referenced works - essentially because of streaming services. I would have had to spend thousands of dollars to be able to listen to all the classical music I've listened to in the last 2 - 3 years.

Yes, finding a specific recording is sometimes hit-or-miss, but I've found world class recordings of just about everything I've looked up, and it's almost always easy. It's pretty easy to spot a Deutsche Grammaphone or Naxos recording, and I find that the services are getting better and better at surfacing high quality recordings when you search for a given work.

It's odd that she doesn't mention Apple Music since it has been in the news - I find their metadata and presentation of that metadata to be worlds better than Spotify or Rdio.

Re: Why Can't Streaming Services Get Classical Music Right?

#63
Even native music players don't get classical right. It's virtually impossible to shuffle through a classical music library because you always get plopped in some movement in the middle of a piece. I've always wished that there were a way to group certain pieces together so that all the movements are treated as one piece for the purposes of shuffle. I remember someone else making this complaint about three years ago and, to my knowledge, nothing has happened since:

http://sigma-star.com/blog/post/startup-idea--classical-musi...

Re: Why Can't Streaming Services Get Classical Music Right?

#64

What makes listening to anything other than entire albums (radio, streaming, etc) unpleasant for me is the volume settings. Most people listen to classical way too quietly. Most classical music has a very wide dynamic range. Your volume should be adjusted so that the very quietest parts are loud enough to hear every subtlety and so that the loudest parts shake your bones. A single trumpet playing at full volume is lo…

Funny, I've wished for some kind of built-in compressor (as in the audio dynamics effect) for car listening - when dealing with road noise, city noise, treadmill noise, etc., I'd like to be able to turn up the volume without getting my ears blown out by the brass.

Re: Why Can't Streaming Services Get Classical Music Right?

#65
post #50

WCPE in Wake Forest NC streams classical in Windows Media, MP3 and Ogg Vorbis formats http://theclassicalstation.org/listen.shtml As classical fans themselves, they pay more attention to artists, composers, and performances. But there's still a limited amount of info they can announce.

Hit the Ogg stream and it loaded in VLC (Devuan linux, basically Debian 8, on my old Thinkpad). Oddly enough, given the OA, I can't find any information within VLC about what I'm listening to. The announcer has just explained that it was a Brendel recording of a Mozart sonata.

Nice station.

Edit: the what's playing page has a full time plan of the 'broadcast' with links to purchasing the particular recording being played. Those links contain the full performer/artist information.

Re: Why Can't Streaming Services Get Classical Music Right?

#66
post #49
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both iTunes and Spotify have perfect gapless playback for me - I wouldn't use them if not, as I listen to quite a lot of electronic mix CDs and any gap ruins the flow. On iTunes it does depend if the source was ripped properly (e.g. with iTunes itself), some older mp3s do not have the necessary additional data for proper gapless (I believe it is due to the overlapping nature of FFT windows - each frame in the mp3 dep…

What music do you listen to? Because I have literally never found an album that does gapless. Does the free version not get gapless playback?

House, techno, general electronic stuff. Here's an example of an (excellent) mix album split into tracks that plays perfectly for me: https://open.spotify.com/album/4ZYcd1FAY9GjtIphGqL4Ot (and I mean perfectly, I'm pretty anal about these things ;))

Re: Why Can't Streaming Services Get Classical Music Right?

#67
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both iTunes and Spotify have perfect gapless playback for me - I wouldn't use them if not, as I listen to quite a lot of electronic mix CDs and any gap ruins the flow. On iTunes it does depend if the source was ripped properly (e.g. with iTunes itself), some older mp3s do not have the necessary additional data for proper gapless (I believe it is due to the overlapping nature of FFT windows - each frame in the mp3 dep…

Thanks for the reply, I'll do some checks, but I'm pretty sure that I have crossfade disabled in spotify, and will double check my settings in other players. Interesting to hear "older mp3s do not have the necessary additional data". Do you happen to know when this info was introduced? Is it stored in the ID3 header, or in the actual MP3 data? Can I "losslessly" change the files to fix this? I'm especially interested…

I have no idea I'm afraid, just going off a fuzzy memory. This seems to go into a lot more detail than I ever could: http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Gapless_playback. There's no way to go back and fix old files, but I know iTunes has done flawless gapless (when the source files are good, e.g. ripped from CD in iTunes) for about 10 years (I remember getting the firmware update on my black iPod video, ahhh now that was a beautiful looking bit of kit! Not very waterproof as it turns out though...)

Google Music doesn't play gapless properly, which is incredibly annoying, and indeed I struggled to get any player on Android to play gapless as well as iTunes. Poweramp was the closest I could find. Ended up going back to iPhone for that and other reasons. Not sure how iTunes Match handles gapless as I could never get it to upload my library properly, never mind play it back...

I still feel there is a big gap in the market for a really good cloud music repository. Hopefully Spotify can get in to that space, their player is the best out of the ones I've tried (though still a lot of room for improvement). I did try using Subsonic briefly but the clients were horrible.

Re: Why Can't Streaming Services Get Classical Music Right?

#68
The metadata is provided by the labels. For their top-selling popular music that they earn songwriting and performance royalties on, the metadata is typically very thoroughly checked and accurate (although there are still mistakes). For classical music that is long out of copyright for the music, they care a lot less and the metadata is filled with mistakes. Most streaming services make a decent effort to try to clean up the metadata, but to a large extent, it's just a case of garbage in, garbage out.

Re: Why Can't Streaming Services Get Classical Music Right?

#69
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both iTunes and Spotify have perfect gapless playback for me - I wouldn't use them if not, as I listen to quite a lot of electronic mix CDs and any gap ruins the flow. On iTunes it does depend if the source was ripped properly (e.g. with iTunes itself), some older mp3s do not have the necessary additional data for proper gapless (I believe it is due to the overlapping nature of FFT windows - each frame in the mp3 dep…

Thanks for the reply, I'll do some checks, but I'm pretty sure that I have crossfade disabled in spotify, and will double check my settings in other players. Interesting to hear "older mp3s do not have the necessary additional data". Do you happen to know when this info was introduced? Is it stored in the ID3 header, or in the actual MP3 data? Can I "losslessly" change the files to fix this? I'm especially interested…

Also see my reply above for an example of an album that plays seamlessly for me in Spotify. It may just be that I have got lucky, to be fair quite a lot of the mix CDs I listen to on Spotify are uploaded as one single hour-plus long track so would always be gapless.

Re: Why Can't Streaming Services Get Classical Music Right?

#70

The very same issues plague modern music too. I listen to a lot of electronic music, which comes with a lot of people making remixes and such. Those are already a massive pain. Then i also listen to vocaloid music, where the complexity gets downright insane. Vocaloid music is music where the "performer" is a software using a prerecorded soundbank to render the vocals into the final piece. For those you typically have…

Can you link to some examples?

Google Hatsune Miku. See e.g.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSyWtESoeOc

Vocaloid is an example of marketing genius. The software appeared in the UK, and most people thought "Huh - sounds like a squeaky robot" and ignored it.

In Japan they gave one of the packs a name and invented an anime character for it, and made it possible to share music and 3D animations freely. The crowdsourced market exploded into a huge cult following, with some of the best J-Pop writers creating popular vocaloid songs.

And then there were holographic tours and parties, and Hatsune Miku became half in-joke, and half viral marketing diva with a distinct personality.

The best songs are very good indeed, IMO.

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