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Who's doing this to my internet?

veekaybee.github.io

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Re: Who's doing this to my internet?

#291

Post by sk8ingdom »

netcan wrote: post #193

This is somewhat tangental, but it's tangental on a couple of points so I'll bring it up anyway. Would someone please fix "podcasting," and maybe even RSS? The first tangent is 2012 (or maybe 2007, I dunno time is a blur). RSS and XML were one of the Web 2.0 buzz. Blogs were exploding and there was a lot of novel writing of a type we didn't have much of before. RSS, XML, semantic web and their friends were being brou…

I used to be a really large fan of RSS because it fulfilled the dream of bringing hand-picked content to the user, in one place. Why go to all the separate websites? Why have an app for EACH new agency. I can search, sort, see when articles were published, all from the comfort of a single web page or desktop client! RSS even seemed to have pretty wide adoption. That orange button was everywhere! My non-techie friends even used Google Reader circa 2006-2008.

However, my love of RSS is really just a historic relic of becoming interested in computers between 2001 and 2005. Before that was Usenet and other technologies I'm probably unaware of. RSS has since been replaced by Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, Tumblr, Google Plus, etc. Someone needs to pay the bills and it's a lot easier to monetize when you keep users in your walled gardens and control what they see. These newer technologies are also MUCH easier to use for the average consumer and have the net-benefit of being "social" which is likely beneficial for the ad conglomerates.

Companies who create (or curate or distribute) content are fundamentally at odds with their users. Users want relevant, high quality, add-free content, but most are not willing to pay for it. If they do, they expect a fine-tuned user experience or physical product (a magazine or Amazon Kindle for example). Even paid subscription magazines (NewScientist, Time, etc.) have ads to help keep their pricing competitive and increase quarterly profits for investors. Hell, even my Kindle (which I PAID for) came with ads. Granted, Amazon gave me the ability to remove them for $20. But, that gives you an idea of how valuable ads are. I never understood why more websites didn't just include ads in their RSS feeds. Easier to filter out? Less control since the user isn't visiting the site?

I'd be MORE than willing to pay for RSS or NNTP feeds of high quality content. To me, there is no better user experience than reading format-free text and images in Gnus, but I imagine I'm in the minority. Average consumers (my parents, non-tech friends, etc.) are more than willing to visit cnn.com in their browsers or dedicated phone app. Most people simply don't care enough. I feel like I'm constantly trying to chase the conversation of the topics I'm interested in by stringing together mostly-incompatible technologies and work flows.

I'd really just like the ability to read, annotate, comment on, share, and discuss media with people who are also interested.

Re: Who's doing this to my internet?

#292

Post by Nano2rad »

The monetization model not looking for paying customers; the aim is to get some money from everyone even those not willing to pay. Solution is to seek new sites and technologies even if they are not convenient and publicize. if possible start your own also support financially. If free sites are to exist without corporate control, expectation also have to be low.

Re: Who's doing this to my internet?

#293

Post by hueving »

josh2600 wrote: post #275
hueving wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Internet infrastructure has nothing to do with what we are talking about. You actually pay for the infrastructure monthly to your ISP. Also, your understanding of the point of a business is really flawed. Everyone can have perfect information and businesses can still function just fine. I continue to pay restaurants for food even though I know they are making a profit off me. I do business with businesses that pr…

>The Internet infrastructure has nothing to do with what we are talking about. You actually pay for the infrastructure monthly to your ISP. Actually, your tax dollars for the last 40+ years subsidized the internet and you now pay your ISP because of their ability to leverage regulatory arbitrage against you. Their secret is their ability to get governments to give them money for delivering services that they then cha…

Ugh, no! It's not because they know the best places to get meat, etc. When I cook at home I can make better meals than most restaurants I go to. I pay them because they do the damn work for me!

There are some businesses where secrets matter, but the vast majority are just in existence because they have infrastructure setup to do things cheaper/faster than you could yourself.

Re: Who's doing this to my internet?

#294

Post by Nano2rad »

hueving wrote: post #207
josh2600 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find comments like this to be sorta akin to putting your fingers in your ears and screaming "lalalalala I can't hear you!". Whenever people say "free" in the context of information exchange, my belief is that they fundamentally misunderstand the nature of information. Information is a proxy for power, and the power comes from asymmetry. If everyone has a level playing field from an information access perspective, y…

The Internet infrastructure has nothing to do with what we are talking about. You actually pay for the infrastructure monthly to your ISP. Also, your understanding of the point of a business is really flawed. Everyone can have perfect information and businesses can still function just fine. I continue to pay restaurants for food even though I know they are making a profit off me. I do business with businesses that pr…

We are not paying for hosting costs ..

Re: Who's doing this to my internet?

#295

Post by Buetol »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #232
Buetol wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the basic income is at a comfortable level, then most people won't look to make more money, I think, but improve the things they have. And this is the whole debate I think, are people hungry for the money even with a comfortable income or with a sufficient income they are not gonna look to earn more ?

I don't agree with this at all. People will always want bigger TVs and fancier cars.

And this is the basic assumption that we disagree on.

Re: Who's doing this to my internet?

#296

Post by fit2rule »

icebraining wrote: post #197
fit2rule wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you said server, and the solution is serverless. $8/month is still $8/month. I'd rather that anyone who was interested in my artistry just come and get it from me, directly. Remember the aim is to eradicate the middle man entirely. You have not done this in your position.

Well, your aim is to eradicate the middle man. What I'm missing is a reason to believe that artists generally share your aim.

Artists don't get paid, piracy or no-piracy. The middlemen get the majority of the profits in the MPAA-protected mafia industry.

Putting tools in the hands of artists that provide them with the ability to contact many, many fans, and be assured of that relationship without interference by a 3rd party, is quite a valuable goal. Thankfully I'm not the only one with that aim.

Re: Who's doing this to my internet?

#297

Post by icebraining »

fit2rule wrote: post #296
icebraining wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, your aim is to eradicate the middle man. What I'm missing is a reason to believe that artists generally share your aim.

Artists don't get paid, piracy or no-piracy. The middlemen get the majority of the profits in the MPAA-protected mafia industry. Putting tools in the hands of artists that provide them with the ability to contact many, many fans, and be assured of that relationship without interference by a 3rd party, is quite a valuable goal. Thankfully I'm not the only one with that aim.

Like I said, artists could already bypass the MPAA-protected industry and get a much larger share of the profits and direct contact with the fans by setting up a site as I mentioned before.

If they don't even do that, I think it's unrealistic to assume they'll start using IPFS and host their own stuff.

Re: Who's doing this to my internet?

#298

Post by lamontcg »

doctorshady wrote: post #233
binxbolling wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, author has rose-colored glasses. I almost thought it was a joke at first—2012 as the good ol' days? The internet ruined in the last three years? Come on.

I think her point is the internet has changed much more quickly since then, as opposed to earlier years.

Yeah except it hasn't changed more quickly. Back in the early 90s we had Eternal September, the NSFNet stopped running the backbone which led to SPAM (there was a time on the internet before SPAM), then the web was invented and someone wrote Netscape. That probably all happened within a period of three years or so. A few years later there were a thousand crappy Geocities sites and Yahoo and Amazon were founded.

Re: Who's doing this to my internet?

#299

Post by josh2600 »

hueving wrote: post #293
josh2600 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The Internet infrastructure has nothing to do with what we are talking about. You actually pay for the infrastructure monthly to your ISP. Actually, your tax dollars for the last 40+ years subsidized the internet and you now pay your ISP because of their ability to leverage regulatory arbitrage against you. Their secret is their ability to get governments to give them money for delivering services that they then cha…

Ugh, no! It's not because they know the best places to get meat, etc. When I cook at home I can make better meals than most restaurants I go to. I pay them because they do the damn work for me! There are some businesses where secrets matter, but the vast majority are just in existence because they have infrastructure setup to do things cheaper/faster than you could yourself.

I think you should expand your view. You are only taking into account the service aspects of the business and not supply chain or other very important details (like location).

All businesses have secrets and they matter. The cheaper/faster portion of the business is a form of information arbitrage. Cheers.

Re: Who's doing this to my internet?

#300

Post by eevilspock »

josh2600 wrote: post #273
eevilspock wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I made a mistake by ending my comment with: > The author nails it at the end: > "There have to be other business models that free up the internet for what it was meant for: free exchange of information.” I'm with you. People need to get paid. I'm only calling for coming up with better business models or go back to the straight up "charge for it" model that the free market system is built on. The bit about "free up th…

Advertising is the worst model, except for all the rest of them. Charging for things, in and of itself, is hard and, on some level, facetious. If all knowledge were known, why would you pay anyone to do anything? It's not clear to me why anyone pays anyone except in the case of information arbitrage. Advertising is a form of explicit information arbitrage, where we convert dollars into attention. Other information ar…

Dude, you don't really make much sense with all that reductionist gobbledygook. You're quite hung up on the concept of "information arbitrage" in your numerous replies on this thread. You almost come off as a troll but I can see you're serious.

There is more to life than "information arbitrage". You cannot reduce people and society to transactions. Get out of your green-ivory tower. Arbitrage the asymmetry between your theories and reality by living a little. Maybe get laid. But if you reduce that too to some sort of arbitrage, you probably won't, unless you're paying for it, which only reinforces your world view.

> I find comments like this to be sorta akin to putting your fingers in your ears and screaming "lalalalala I can't hear you!".

Ironic.

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