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GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

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Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#431

Post by glass- »

Mikushi wrote: post #364
kentonv wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it offensive? Yes. Does Github have the right to take it down? Yes. Is it unethical for Github to take it down? Not at all. But should they? I don't know, I don't think I would have. It's kind of scary to use cloud services where it's hard to tell if your content might be judged in violation of some rule and might suddenly disappear as a result. If the offensiveness were more extreme (say, a repo dedicated to maki…

>Is it offensive? Yes. Can we stop saying this as a universal truth? You find it offensive. I and millions other people don't. You deal with it.

You don't find it offensive. I and millions of other people do. You deal with it.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#432

Post by retrogradeorbit »

DanBC wrote: post #335
scarlson wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also gladly index and help you find brainfuck repos. I can't say fuck on TV, but it's ok on Github. I can't say retard on Github, but it's ok on TV. I'm glad we've accomplished something here.

Doesn't that reassure you? Assuming this letter is true: they're not stopping you from using offensive words, they're stopping you from using a very small set of words because those words contribute to a culture that cause actual harm. TV is a poor example: it's fine to make jokes about male rape on TV, but everyone loses their shit when an obscured nipple is shown.

> because those words contribute to a culture that cause actual harm.

No it doesn't. Where's your proof?

Plenty of people have said plenty of nasty things throughout the years, and no one died.

Yet our empire uses remote control drones to bomb small children, and that's totally OK. (Now there's a real "culture that causes actual harm")

What is really harmful, and what isn't? Take a good, hard look around.

Sticks and stones (and bombs) will break my bones, but words will never hurt me.

Try it. Go on. Call me whatever you want. And watch me not give two fucks what you think.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#433

Post by crimsonalucard »

CoryG89 wrote: post #40

For people who don't see what's wrong here. The issue is not about whether the word 'retard' is or is not offensive to anyone. You need to consider that GitHub currently hosts a large percentage of the web's open source repositories. This is censorship plain and simple, something that IMO has no place in open source. The issue is that there are plenty of things some people might find offensive on GitHub but you dont…

We view this type of censorship as offensive because the word "retard" doesn't carry much weight. Nobody would be fighting for this man's freedom of speech if he littered the code with the word "nigger" or "lynching"

One of the executives probably has a son or daughter who is a retard. Makes sense why such censorship can occur. When you own a product, your bias will inevitably saturate into the product. Having a son or daughter who's a retard makes this bias especially strong.

Personally I agree that "retard" shouldn't be censored because I hate censoring in general. But I also agree that "nigger" shouldn't be touched either. Defending freedom of speech means defending the right for other people to have dissenting opinions, this includes opinions that are stupid, racist and bigoted.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#434

Post by foiboitoi »

bduerst wrote: post #327
foiboitoi wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Free speech exists as a protection from government censorship" So what happens when the line between government and corporation is blurred? The common justification why that corporations aren't beholden to free speech is that you can just choose another corporation to spend your time/money on. What if you can't choose? What if it's prohibitively expensive to just setup an alternative (perhaps due to regulatory captu…

>Slippery slope Github isn't even remotely "blurred" with a government organization. This is some pretty out-there FUD.

Slippery slope doesn't have anything to do with this. My point was that societal standards & expectation shouldn't end with the government. Yes it's not required, but that's irrelevant.

People are paying for these corporations through tax breaks, subsidies & other governmental projects (Tesla for example).

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#435

Post by rmc »

manicdee wrote: post #143
thedz wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. This isn't censorship of the type that is illegal or not allowed. It is a private company deciding a word was inappropriate. 2. It seems like most in this comment thread agree that this action, as a singular act, is a good thing. The word was offensive. Github asked the repo to change it. They did. The end. 3. As for the larger context, the problem with the frequent use of slippery slope arguments and cries of "ce…

First they came for the cussers and swearers, but I didn't speak out because I don't cuss or swear. Then they came for the homophobes and cisgendered bigots, and I cheered them on, because I value diversity. Then they came for the conspiracy theorists, and I didn't speak out because I don't believe the reptoids are evil. Then they came for me, and there was none left to speak out.

You're right. This is just like the Holocaust.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#436

Post by drdaeman »

im3w1l wrote: post #205

Is there a code hosting solution that a) lets me self host code b) has identity system (common to all self hosted instances) c) has pull requests whose origin can be verified with the identity system?

You mean... git?

You can self-host git repo. It's quite storage- and transport-agnostic - you can host it over HTTP, SSH, NFS, SMB/CIFS and even FTP if you're into perverse things.

Every commit has your name and email address, and if you want authentication you can sign those with your public key.

And, well, you can send and receive patches using any means you want. The patch is just a text (usually) file.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#437

Post by retrogradeorbit »

sklogic wrote: post #393
DanBC wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your first line is wrong. This is not about swearing, it's about using a word that causes harm. > Then they came for me, and there was none left to speak out. ...apart from the vast majority of people, because most people don't feel the need to use words like nigger or retard in their open source projects.

> it's about using a word that causes harm Words do not cause harm. It's a slippery slope to total censorship and thought policing to think otherwise.

I've noticed that we are already well down said slope. And sliding faster.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#438

Post by michaelt »

golergka wrote: post #402
realityking wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Censorship is not by defintion done by the government. It's perfectly correct to say "GitHub is censoring X on their platform". Now censorship by the government is a much worse act, because you can't just go become a citizen of another country, but it's still censorship if a compay does it.

OK, we seem to have a problem with definitions. I use definition of "censorship" that people use when they think that "censorship is bad". Because this definition implies that this kind of censorship affects everyone and they can't do anything about it. The other definition of censorship, that also includes private companies and people restricting some materials in their own domain can also be used — that seems to be…

Eh, seems to me there are lots of situations where censorship by private companies is a problem.

For example, if Chinese banks / communication companies / whatever refuse to do business with human rights groups, that's a bad thing even if the companies acted without being explicitly ordered to by the government.

And just because newspapers and TV stations are privately owned, doesn't mean it's a good thing if they all decide not to publish negative stories about Qatar/HSBC/whatever due to a profitable advertising deal. Such self-censorship, if it happened widely, would be deleterious to the independent checks and balances our democracy relies on.

Now, I agree with you that it's not censorship if Joe's Childrens Books declines to publish my manuscript "Best Of 4Chan Shock Images And Racist Jokes" - but I don't think it makes sense to ignore censorship by private companies all together, as sometimes such censorship can be deeply problematic.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#439

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

retrogradeorbit wrote: post #432
DanBC wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't that reassure you? Assuming this letter is true: they're not stopping you from using offensive words, they're stopping you from using a very small set of words because those words contribute to a culture that cause actual harm. TV is a poor example: it's fine to make jokes about male rape on TV, but everyone loses their shit when an obscured nipple is shown.

> because those words contribute to a culture that cause actual harm. No it doesn't. Where's your proof? Plenty of people have said plenty of nasty things throughout the years, and no one died. Yet our empire uses remote control drones to bomb small children, and that's totally OK. (Now there's a real "culture that causes actual harm") What is really harmful, and what isn't? Take a good, hard look around. Sticks and…

> Sticks and stones (and bombs) will break my bones, but words will never hurt me.

I guess you've never experienced school.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#440

Post by malft »

hhandoko wrote: post #344
seivan wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This repository doesn't belong to you. For all intents and purposes this is a private conversation in public. Not to mention going out of their way and report it to the Githapo to have them take it down. This is insane. I'm I the only one who sees the insanity of grown adults shitting their pants over vulgarity?!

It is a false analogy though. If it's just a commit message, then I can see why you would think this construes as a `private` conversation (i.e. message between committers). But, it's also in the README which, by default, the first thing you see when you open up the repository. The better analogy perhaps, is the author is standing with a signboard containing some offensive language in some corner of a public space.

A book in a library, perhaps?
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