Newegg vs. Patent Trolls: When We Win, You Win • Hacker News Board

Re: Newegg vs. Patent Trolls: When We Win, You Win

#11

Post by ExpiredLink » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 10:06 AM UTC

csvan wrote: post #4

emirozer wrote: post #3

Please excuse my ignorance on this topic. - Why is this happening in the first place? - Who is this entity that grants a loose patent? - Why isn't this entity being interrogated ?

1. Because horrendously broken patent system. 2. An examination body integral to the horrendously broken patent system. 3. See 1.

> horrendously broken patent system

If the patent system were "horrendously broken" it would have been fixed long ago. It obviously serves powerful political interests horrendously well.

Re: Newegg vs. Patent Trolls: When We Win, You Win

#12

Post by rimantas » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 10:07 AM UTC

yenda wrote: post #6

ild wrote: post #2

Another well-known Troll fighter is Vizio.

Another well known patent troll is Apple, patenting your hands movements and phone shape since 1984. Allowing the marketing industry to replace the hardware industry product after product.

Apple does release products, you might want to check the definition of the patent troll.

Re: Newegg vs. Patent Trolls: When We Win, You Win

#13

Post by dietrichepp » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 10:10 AM UTC

yenda wrote: post #6

ild wrote: post #2

Another well-known Troll fighter is Vizio.

Another well known patent troll is Apple, patenting your hands movements and phone shape since 1984. Allowing the marketing industry to replace the hardware industry product after product.

"Phone shape"... you must be thinking of a design patent. That's an entirely different beast from a utility patent, which is what Newegg fights.

Re: Newegg vs. Patent Trolls: When We Win, You Win

#14

Post by mcherm » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 10:15 AM UTC

I really appreciate Newegg's approach here -- one of the main reasons that patent trolling is so successful is that the cost of settling is smaller even than the cost of winning a suit. Newegg is performing an (expensive) community service. How should I be supporting them (other than making them my "first place to check" for electronics shopping)?

Re: Newegg vs. Patent Trolls: When We Win, You Win

#15

Post by TeMPOraL » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 10:22 AM UTC

ExpiredLink wrote: post #11

csvan wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Because horrendously broken patent system. 2. An examination body integral to the horrendously broken patent system. 3. See 1.

> horrendously broken patent system If the patent system were "horrendously broken" it would have been fixed long ago. It obviously serves powerful political interests horrendously well.

There is a lot of politics and lobbying present, but there's also intertia. It takes time to fix things. Present patent system is woefully inadequate to the world of Internet-delivered software, which is quite a recent development. It serves somewhat better in other areas.

Re: Newegg vs. Patent Trolls: When We Win, You Win

#16

Post by soup10 » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 10:24 AM UTC

rplnt wrote: post #10

soup10 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't help much apparently, since android is one of the largest software design 'thefts' ever, and the only thing they couldn't include was 'swipe to unlock' and the apple logo.

Don't they pay Apple and Microsoft for various patents though? The vendors that is.

I think they do for chips and stuff, not sure about design. Much harder to enforce most design stuff because once you've found 'the good way' it seems super obvious.

Re: Newegg vs. Patent Trolls: When We Win, You Win

#17

Post by xxs » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 10:28 AM UTC

ExpiredLink wrote: post #11

csvan wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Because horrendously broken patent system. 2. An examination body integral to the horrendously broken patent system. 3. See 1.

> horrendously broken patent system If the patent system were "horrendously broken" it would have been fixed long ago. It obviously serves powerful political interests horrendously well.

Most people in politics do not even understand the problem.

Re: Newegg vs. Patent Trolls: When We Win, You Win

#18

Post by jchomali » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 10:30 AM UTC

Nice article! Thanks for sharing this with us!

Re: Newegg vs. Patent Trolls: When We Win, You Win

#19

Post by ChrisGranger » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 10:38 AM UTC

mcherm wrote: post #14

I really appreciate Newegg's approach here -- one of the main reasons that patent trolling is so successful is that the cost of settling is smaller even than the cost of winning a suit. Newegg is performing an (expensive) community service. How should I be supporting them (other than making them my "first place to check" for electronics shopping)?

Word of mouth advertising is one way to help. Tell your friends that it should be their "first place to check" as well.

Re: Newegg vs. Patent Trolls: When We Win, You Win

#20

Post by pjc50 » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 10:38 AM UTC

emirozer wrote: post #3

Please excuse my ignorance on this topic. - Why is this happening in the first place? - Who is this entity that grants a loose patent? - Why isn't this entity being interrogated ?

USPTO is the patent granting entity. They perform essentially two checks:

- does the patent have the right structure? (A series of progressively refined claims) - is the patent sufficiently different from all other patents?

What they don't do is check for actual originality, because that's extremely hard in a technical field. That part of the process has to be tested in court.

Software really proceeds too fast for the patent system, has network effects that are stronger than most other technologies, and has a strong collaborative, public spirit surrounding the Internet and communications technologies.

There's also the "using a computer" loophole: while pure software may not be patentable, the process of using a computer (a mechanical device) to do something is a physical process and therefore patentable.