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GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

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Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#401
post #116
post #40

For people who don't see what's wrong here. The issue is not about whether the word 'retard' is or is not offensive to anyone. You need to consider that GitHub currently hosts a large percentage of the web's open source repositories. This is censorship plain and simple, something that IMO has no place in open source. The issue is that there are plenty of things some people might find offensive on GitHub but you dont…

1. This isn't censorship of the type that is illegal or not allowed. It is a private company deciding a word was inappropriate. 2. It seems like most in this comment thread agree that this action, as a singular act, is a good thing. The word was offensive. Github asked the repo to change it. They did. The end. 3. As for the larger context, the problem with the frequent use of slippery slope arguments and cries of "ce…

> 1. This isn't censorship of the type that is illegal or not allowed. It is a private company deciding a word was inappropriate.

It is a private company, alright, but it is also becoming a critical company for the internet as a whole. Which points to an important question our society will have to face more and more often with increasing centralization and globalization: When does a company become essential infrastructure and be judged (morally, by law, by the executive) different to any other private entity.

During the financial crisis we have seen that large parts of the banking sector were deemed "to big to fail" and kept on life support by the government. Facebook has grown large enough than any changes in their TOS and privacy policy are closely watched and often criticized by a multitude of public parties and the press (at least in Germany).

I've only recently realized how far we have come in terms of better development standards when I tried find the official repository for ncurses (which is a GNU project, by the way). There is none. The current development code is hosted via ftp as a set of tarball snapshots [1]. As far as I can tell, no development history beside the change notes of each snapshot before May 2015 is publicly accessible. Issue tracking seems to be handled over the mailing list [2]. And I asked myself, why can't this project be hosted on GitHub?

The answer depends on how reliable GitHub turns out - or continues - to be. If we can't hold GitHub to a higher standard than just "they are a private company, they may do whatever they want", then ncurses should host its own issue tracker and git repository. But if we judge GitHub as an infrastructure, then sure, host this core GNU project via a private company.

> 2. It seems like most in this comment thread agree that this action, as a singular act, is a good thing. The word was offensive. Github asked the repo to change it. They did. The end.

Note that how to deal with swear words or offensive words in general is very culture specific. In the society I live in I seldom encounter cussing or "inappropriate behaviour", but when I do, they are next to never beeped over or blurred out. Rather, when in bad faith, they serve to disqualify the speaker. (And when they are used in good faith they benefit artistic freedom.)

This is not to say "our" way of dealing with questionable or offensive behaviour is the "right" one. Rather, if we hold GitHub to internet infrastructure standards, then they have to find some middle ground between corporate America puritanism and the diverse culture that surrounds it. It's not an easy task, see for example Facebook's debate on nudity vs. breast feeding, but otherwise every entry on GitHub will be as boring as Oracle documentation - no more "Hurr durr I'ma sheep" releases for you.

[1] ftp://invisible-island.net/ncurses/current/ [2] The issue at question being that no ncurses release compiles with the current GCC: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-ncurses/2015-06/msg00...

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a "kind of thinking", it is a simple statement. The word "censorship" doesn't work here. You may still argue that you don't like that Github behaves like that: the statement that you quoted doesn't oppose that view.

Censorship is not by defintion done by the government. It's perfectly correct to say "GitHub is censoring X on their platform". Now censorship by the government is a much worse act, because you can't just go become a citizen of another country, but it's still censorship if a compay does it.

OK, we seem to have a problem with definitions.

I use definition of "censorship" that people use when they think that "censorship is bad". Because this definition implies that this kind of censorship affects everyone and they can't do anything about it.

The other definition of censorship, that also includes private companies and people restricting some materials in their own domain can also be used — that seems to be what you have in mind. But this censorship, when you think about it, is almost always quite OK. Which contradicts the inherent negative connotations that people perceive when they hear the word "censorship".

So, for the sake of using words with definitions that don't contradict their cultural perceptions, I would stick the first definition.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#403
It is so hard to decide where to draw the line. At GitLab.com we face decisions like this too and it is impossible to please everyone. We have a code of conduct https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/blob/master/CONTRIBU... for contributing to GitLab but not for the SaaS service. You can't allow everything and you can't ban everything, so everything always is a judgement call. It would be nice to vote on these things, but a community vote might generate more problems that it solves. Maybe leave it up to the core team https://about.gitlab.com/core-team/ but this group is more concerned with technical decisions. Having a committee for these things seems heavy handed too. In summary, no ideal solutions and I don't have a strong opinion about what GitHub is doing here. The advantage of GitLab is that people that don't fit in can always run their own server https://git.popcorntime.io/groups/popcorntime

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like https://gitlab.com/ or http://gogs.io/ or http://getgitorious.com/ or any of the other open source git servers that you can install on your own machine? Not to say that Github couldn't close down some of their API endpoints in the future (like reading issues/comments), but they're one of the web services I use that I _don't_ actually fear lock-in on.

If I want to migrate to any of platforms, how difficult is it to get everything of of github (including tickets, etc) and set up a redirect on github?

I know gitlab has an option to log into your github account and I believe you can copy everything down.

I use gitlab pretty much exclusively and I prefer it to github by a large margin.

I do maintain a "public"(you likely won't come across it unless you know about it) gitlab server and host a few people's repos including my own. I mean you have to trust me instead of github, but the server is always up to date, and I won't take down anything that isn't illegal. If anyone is interested, feel free to shoot me an email.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#405
post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares about this? If you felt the need to "report" an image of Hitler, you should feel very silly.

Anyone related to a person with LD probably somewhat cares about it, especially if their relative has been the victim of hate crime or life-risking stigma. "Hate incidents" (not necessarily crime) are very common. In the UK a person with LD is more likely to experience a hate incident than someone who is gay, or someone who is a member of a religion.

Could you please elaborate on what LD means in this context? I'm not finding any suitable definition or explanation by searching.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#406
post #102

Lots of misuse of the word "censorship" here and any time this subject comes up generally, not just on this site but anywhere the topic is discussed. What is/are the root issue(s) of this mistaken belief? I typed a few possibilities but they sounded preposterous so I just deleted all that. Could someone who thinks this is censorship please explain why Github doesn't have the right to control its own privately owned w…

Github certainly has the right to control its own privately owned website. That doesn't mean they have the right to stop people from complaining about how they control their website, or from deciding they don't want to use Github because of it, and neither of those things is an infringement of Github's rights no matter how much the "it's not censorship" brigade want to spin it that way.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#407
I'm puzzled sometimes that the ACLU can defend the despicable behaviour of actual Nazis and yet still be lauded as a liberal force for good yet so many of the people online fighting the authoritarian SJW menace so often just come across as assholes.

Best I can come up with is that one actually fights governments and doesn't seek to undermine people's concerns about Nazis or condone their actions, whereas online the bile seems reserved exclusively for those who wish to censor.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the original poem is about how germans systematically eradicated entire racial and political groups. you're comparing it to a website that won't let you save certain content onto their servers.

A website that, at the moment, retains a significant percentage of the entire free and open source software ecosystem. No, it's not quite as bad as genocide, but we're not suggesting putting anybody to death as a result either.

> No, it's not quite as bad as genocide

> not quite

Do you mean: not at all like genocide?

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#409
For those people (like myself) not wanting to be dependent on github and similar hosting services, there are alternatives to git+github that can do distributed bugtracking and are easily self-hosted, such as Fossil ( http://www.fossil-scm.org ).

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#410

Is there any evidence that this is even real? The repo in question is a fork of a repo that's still up, with the word "retard" still in it. There's tons of foul language on GitHub, why would they single out this one relatively minor instance? Anybody could fake that imgur picture in about 30 seconds. Does anybody know for sure that the repo was actually unavailable? Has anybody from GitHub responded? This does remind…

The parent repo was taken down by Github too: https://web.archive.org/web/20150725130839/https://github.co...
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